Author Topic: Wind driven static generator  (Read 948 times)

Offline HiVi

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Wind driven static generator
« on: March 07, 2020, 01:43:46 PM »
...aka vaneless ion wind generator or bladeless wind turbine (not vibrating one).

Has anyone got any experience with making it? What do you think about it?

Basically it is ion wind thruster, over-driven with wind. Kind of like electric generator driven in wind turbine.
Example schematic in attached picture.

How to do voltage conversion?
I was thinking about using spark gap switched flyback transformer to reduce voltage.

Offline haversin

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Re: Wind driven static generator
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2020, 05:27:32 PM »
I read this thread on 4hv, it's a very clever idea.
Does the top anode plates in your diagram represent a cylinder? If they do, then the cylinder axis must be aligned with the wind. Ions that drift between the center cathode and outer anode extract little energy from the wind because the wind force is mostly perpendicular to the electrostatic force. This short circuit ion current is a large inefficiency. The EWICON implementation of this generator does away with the outer electrode and makes the Earth the other electrode and avoids most of this short circuit energy loss.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 05:30:48 PM by haversin »

Offline HiVi

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Re: Wind driven static generator
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 06:32:50 PM »
Yes, i read about it on 4hv too.

Yes you are correct, on diagram i gave, it is a cylinder. Because it is the most simple example of ionothruster - used it as analogy to wind turbines which "can" drive air or be driven by air. By no means it is an optimized solution in case of efficiency.

I am sure that EWICON does not remove second (outer) electrode. it is hidden in "charging system" black box. If you have only one electrode, and Earth as second, you will not be able to charge particles to gain energy from wind when they are carried away.
As far as i looked into it, you need second electrode of even higher voltage, to charge particles around first electrode. And then carry charged particles by wind away, which causes rise in voltage of first electrode. Of course, ideally you have zero current between first and second electrode.

Offline haversin

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Re: Wind driven static generator
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2020, 07:44:12 PM »
I am sure that EWICON does not remove second (outer) electrode. it is hidden in "charging system" black box.
My point was that the EWICON design does not have an outer enclosing cylinder electrode that your diagram has. This outer cylinder electrode would have lower ionization voltage but increase the short circuit ion current energy loss.

Offline HiVi

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Re: Wind driven static generator
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2020, 12:25:14 AM »
My take on "windstick".

Enclosed electrode in white tube, positively charged. Around wound grid wire connected to ground/collector - on picture some stripped wire with strands in air.
Ignition coil as hv source, limited to cca 200V on primary with zenner. 555 timer driven oscilator to switch coil.
In black tower is diode array.

On picture is setup with multimeter, to measure current. When driven with ignition coil, pulsed current was measured in direction from collector to grid wire. I was expecting current in opposite direction.  Also blowing air in any direction increased current flow.
Since current was pulsed, i also measured current via resistor and oscilloscope. Result was same, observed was pulsed current in only one direction, from collector to grid.

My thought was that if i charge core electrode with positive charge, the grid wire should emit negative charge. The negative charge would be caught with collector and "returned" to grid wire.
But it seems as the positive core electrode attracts negative charge from surrounding and deposit on grid electrodes...
Anyone has any other theory?
In next experiment i plan to put some capacitors parallel to diodes, to stabilize voltage between electrodes.

Offline haversin

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Re: Wind driven static generator
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2020, 03:48:50 PM »
Any significant voltage fluctuation on the top enclosed electrode will induce a capacitive coupling current in your collector that interferes with the ion current measurement. The first step is to get a steady voltage on this top enclosed electrode. Also the grid wire ionization will probably stop once the outer surface of the electrode enclosure becomes negatively charged.

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Re: Wind driven static generator
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2020, 03:48:50 PM »

 


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