Author Topic: 230 volts spark gap  (Read 854 times)

Offline Quentief

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2020, 11:47:58 PM »
To deal with the saturation phenomenon, I decided to rewind the core in an other way. Indeed, I have read on this article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_(electronics)#Near_magnetic_field_emission_reduction that it is possible to make the magnetic fluxes to cancel each other.

To do this, the each coil has the same number of spire, but the middle coil is winded in a different direction than the two others. Moreover, the iron section of the middle coil equals the sum of the two others sections coils. So in theory, the magnetic flux of each coil will cancel each other, and the core cannot be saturated, according to what I read on the article.

Do you think it is possible ?

I calculate the inductance of the coil, I find 60 mH, but I am not sure. The details are available in attachement.

Then, I connect the coil with my setup to try to make electric arcs from the main 220 V. It does not work better as my previous attempt.


Offline klugesmith

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2020, 01:21:11 AM »
You should measure the inductance using an AC voltmeter, resistor, and low voltage transformer.
If you really have 60 mH, the impedance is 19 ohms at 50 Hz.
With the coil in series with 19 ohm resistor, both elements will have the same AC voltage (each about 71% of the applied voltage).
If voltage across coil is lower than voltage across resistor, then inductance is less than 60 mH, and you can get it from the voltage ratio and known value of resistor.

You might substitute a 230 V heating appliance for the resistor, and skip the low voltage transformer.  1 AC ampere should produce 19 AC volts across a 60 mH inductor.  Incandescent light bulbs are not good to use as reference resistors.

Connecting winding sections to oppose each other increases the saturation current.  But it reduces the inductance by the square of that factor.  You are wasting wire.

If the coil winding directions are gauche, droite, gauche when viewed from top, then they are not going to cancel. 
When middle coil is forcing flux up in middle leg of core, the outside coils are forcing flux down in the outer legs.
Heads I win, tails you lose. :)
Even if you want three coils to aid each other, using the outer legs can't increase the effective number of turns.  All turns have to fit through the same winding window!  Turns around an outer leg are less well coupled to the middle coil, and are coupled in opposite direction to the other outside coil.

You can change the relative winding directions without uncoiling the wire. 
Bring out two wires for center coil, and two other wires for the outside coils.
Then you can externally connect them in series, or in parallel, with any polarity.
Learn something by measuring the inductance of series connection both ways.





« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 02:00:46 AM by klugesmith »

Offline Quentief

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2020, 12:10:28 AM »
Hi everyone,

I did not check the inductance of my homemade coil. However, I replace it by a big transformer from my homemade spot welder (which is built from a microwave oven transformer). Here is the result : https://photos.app.goo.gl/z85tXhyhWVKtNm5K7

(sorry for the bad quality of the video, I was scared to damaged my phone because of the UV)

It works pretty good but I am wondering if the 10 amps are not dangerous for the MOT, the current may be too high for the primary coil and could overheat the transformer. I am wondering if I could use an electric motor instead, like a hair dryer motor : its universal motor should be able to run on the rectified 230 volt and its rotation should cool down its coil.

I have also another question, not linked with the topic : I cannot identify what is this component (it cames from an old PC power supply). Please, could you tell me what is it ?

Many thanks for your help

Offline Quentief

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2020, 12:14:07 AM »
here is the component

Offline johnf

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2020, 03:19:32 AM »
quentief
That is an X2 rated AC capacitor ie AC275 volts used in common mode filter on mains input

Offline davekni

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2020, 03:59:59 AM »
John gave you the answer, but you can also get that information and more by a simple google search of the writing on the part.  Try searching for "MEX-X2 MPP 1.0K 275V 40/100/21".  This works for many parts.

Concerning microwave transformer current, look for the power rating of the microwave it came from (or a typical microwave if you don't know).  Use that power and the line voltage it was designed for (ie. 230V) , and calculate a current.  The actual will be a bit higher due to power factor and losses in the magnetron, but that provides a lower limit to the likely value.
David Knierim

Offline Quentief

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2020, 01:25:06 PM »
Thanks for the component informations.

The power of the microwave oven was about 1300W, so about 6 Amps under 220 volt. In my setup, the current is limited with a 2200W kettle, so the current is about 10 Amps. I do not know if a such current can be tolerate for long time by the transformer.

Offline davekni

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2020, 03:53:13 AM »
10A would almost certainly be too much.  Depending on the actual voltage split between the 2.2kW kettle and your circuit, the current might be low enough.  A fan blowing on the transformer would allow slightly more current.
David Knierim

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Re: 230 volts spark gap
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2020, 03:53:13 AM »

 


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