Author Topic: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.  (Read 800 times)

Offline Patrick

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« on: November 07, 2019, 04:32:39 AM »
Ok I'm getting ready to make a serious go at it. Some questions I have would be temp, duration, and pressure Im continuing research but not sure.

The goals for this apparatus are to degas oils and epoxy, vacuum draw and fill caps and transformers with epoxy, oil or 2 part silicone. Side projects would be to verify capacitors and mosfets at the equivalent to 100k feet at high and low temperatures.

pics of the apparatus:
https://i.imgur.com/1iv0TPR.jpg
and:
https://i.imgur.com/g2EIR0N.jpg
pdf: Attached

I'm making a stainless steel screen like layer-cake to act as Raschig rings. Which will be lifted into and out of the oil being degassed by stepper motor and scavenged 3D printer vertical axis parts. All parts will be thoroughly sonic cleaned including the motor. Ive found this and similar information that suggest .1 to 5 torr or thereabouts is a good starting point.

ill verify a samples breakdown potential before and after treatment in 6 hour intervals i guess to graph a trend indicating the end of improvement for each oil type.

I don't have access to the purpose made dielectric oil like Shell Dialla AX, but I use food oil mostly anyway.

The capacitors in the clear cube were at 100k feet for balloon testing.

.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 05:30:41 AM by Patrick »

Offline davekni

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 03:52:11 AM »
Do you have oil for your vacuum pump?  That would likely be much better than food oil.  Mineral oil is often available at local stores - used as an occasional laxative or as baby oil.  (Baby oil is just mineral oil with perfume added.)  Food oils have polar groups, which will cause higher dielectric loss, more water absorption, and likely lower breakdown voltage.  Also, food oils (unless 100% saturated) have C=C double bonds, so will chemically degrade faster.
David Knierim

Offline Patrick

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2019, 07:02:46 PM »
mmmm Ive looked at this before, back on 4hv. ill have to run a table and chart of all oils and properties, now I have the equipment to do so. Only Corn oil seemed to be catastrophically unusable right from the get go. We were trying to stay away from hydrocarbon oils.

Soy bean oil is used in 50kV+ main line transformers which run for decades. So we always discussed this, but now we'll know. Aging is always a concern, but for me 2-3 years is fine.

We always thought "Envirotemp"was soy bean oil with green dye and 1 or 2 % additives that we hobbyists probly dont need.
https://www.cargill.com/news/releases/2013/NA3082422.jsp
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 07:07:15 PM by Patrick »

Offline DashApple

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 10:16:14 PM »
I have ever only vacuumed a transformer under oil to remove the trapped air within the windings and not tried to degas the oil its self so not sure if this reply will be helpful

I used HV transformer mineral oil and ran it direct from the vacuum pump for 6 days

I believe there are some baby oils that are pure mineral oil without any additives ?

Offline davekni

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Karma: +25/-0
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2019, 03:20:09 AM »
Interesting information about Cargill's FR3 oil derived from soybean oil.  Looks like I'm way out-of-date!  I wonder how much modification is done to the soybean oil.  They mention paper insulation lasting much longer.  Perhaps that's tied to the polar molecules in paper bonding to the polar parts of the oil.  (The dielectric dissipation caused by the polar parts of the oil would be of no issue at line frequency, only for high-frequency use.)

Cargill mentions FR3's biodegradability.  To me, that suggests the double-bonds (unsaturation) are likely still present.  Guess that's not an issue as long as the air is thoroughly removed.

Thank you for the update.  I stand corrected.
David Knierim

Offline Patrick

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2019, 06:54:09 AM »
I stand corrected.

Im not saying thats fact just that was an example i found from the $$$ industry.

we need this info too but i cant find any open-source or open-method examples in several years of searching. Just random YouTube vids showing a poorly wound and insulated flyback in a food container of oil.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Degassing of Dielectric Oil Using High Vacuum.
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2019, 06:54:09 AM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Little Bee B Field / Current Probe
[General Chat]
Weston
Today at 07:27:18 AM
post Re: Drsstc tank Cap testing
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Weston
Today at 07:02:44 AM
post Drsstc tank Cap testing
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
oneKone
Today at 05:56:46 AM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
Today at 12:03:47 AM
post Re: Little Bee B Field / Current Probe
[General Chat]
station240
July 13, 2020, 01:08:35 PM
post Re: Server PSU Hack - HP DPS-800GB A, 12VDC 1000W
[Electronic Circuits]
rikkitikkitavi
July 13, 2020, 08:30:46 AM
post Re: Capacitors and arcs
[Beginners]
Paradox
July 13, 2020, 01:59:09 AM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
July 13, 2020, 01:20:59 AM
post Re: compact midi interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
July 12, 2020, 05:06:10 AM
post Re: Little Bee B Field / Current Probe
[General Chat]
Steve Ward
July 11, 2020, 10:23:24 PM
post Re: DRSSTC with litz-wire primary and 40 x TO247 IGBT H-Bridge
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 11, 2020, 09:36:02 PM
post Re: Server PSU Hack - HP DPS-800GB A, 12VDC 1000W
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
July 11, 2020, 07:36:23 PM
post Re: Server PSU Hack - HP DPS-800GB A, 12VDC 1000W
[Electronic Circuits]
Fumeaux
July 11, 2020, 04:45:18 PM
post Server PSU Hack - HP DPS-800GB A, 12VDC 1000W
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
July 11, 2020, 01:26:41 PM
post Re: Little Bee B Field / Current Probe
[General Chat]
Twospoons
July 11, 2020, 07:53:04 AM
post Little Bee B Field / Current Probe
[General Chat]
Weston
July 11, 2020, 06:37:03 AM
post Re: PCB etching, DIY (chemistry mostly)
[Printed Circuit Board]
klugesmith
July 11, 2020, 04:18:29 AM
post Re: PCB etching, DIY (chemistry mostly)
[Printed Circuit Board]
Twospoons
July 11, 2020, 01:35:07 AM
post Re: PCB etching, DIY (chemistry mostly)
[Printed Circuit Board]
klugesmith
July 10, 2020, 11:35:05 PM
post Re: Capacitors and arcs
[Beginners]
Morvandium
July 10, 2020, 11:10:57 PM
post Re: PCB etching, DIY (chemistry mostly)
[Printed Circuit Board]
Morvandium
July 10, 2020, 11:06:07 PM
post Re: Capacitors and arcs
[Beginners]
k42
July 10, 2020, 08:53:06 PM
post Re: XRay Tank- any ideas about what is inside
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
HighVoltageRulezz
July 10, 2020, 07:20:48 PM
post Re: Why is Auto-transformer (variac) called transformer??
[Beginners]
Morvandium
July 10, 2020, 04:45:43 PM
post Re: Cathodes in Compact Fluorescent Lamps
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
T3sl4co1l
July 10, 2020, 10:57:29 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
hammertone
July 10, 2020, 08:55:30 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
johnf
July 10, 2020, 08:48:33 AM
post Re: Cathodes in Compact Fluorescent Lamps
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
davekni
July 10, 2020, 07:00:13 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
July 10, 2020, 06:57:36 AM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
davekni
July 10, 2020, 05:44:54 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
johnf
July 09, 2020, 09:23:38 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
July 09, 2020, 09:09:08 PM
post Re: Cathodes in Compact Fluorescent Lamps
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
klugesmith
July 09, 2020, 07:00:49 PM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
TMaxElectronics
July 09, 2020, 02:33:38 PM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
hammertone
July 09, 2020, 12:16:32 PM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
hammertone
July 09, 2020, 11:46:10 AM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
Twospoons
July 09, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
johnf
July 09, 2020, 08:37:52 AM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
klugesmith
July 09, 2020, 06:45:18 AM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
TMaxElectronics
July 09, 2020, 02:36:22 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
July 08, 2020, 09:43:20 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Morvandium
July 08, 2020, 09:33:35 PM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
johnf
July 08, 2020, 09:23:14 PM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
klugesmith
July 08, 2020, 09:16:42 PM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
johnf
July 08, 2020, 09:00:04 PM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
July 08, 2020, 04:25:53 PM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
ElectroXa
July 08, 2020, 10:03:25 AM
post Re: Configuration of a half bridge.
[Electronic Circuits]
hammertone
July 08, 2020, 08:39:10 AM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
Twospoons
July 08, 2020, 08:34:02 AM
post Re: Measuring LED efficiency
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
davekni
July 08, 2020, 04:39:10 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal