Author Topic: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?  (Read 382 times)

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi all,
Trying to make ZVS mazzilli circuit with active gate driver and getting bad ringing at switch over. While trying to debug it, found most noisy point to be on collector of Q401(Q402).
Here is my circuit attached with scope traces of that point and of ouputs. Could somebody experienced give a hint what causes this ringing and how to fight it?


Offline flyrod

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 03:22:54 AM »
What does the signal on the other end of R408 look like?

What does your circuit layout look like?  For example, how long is the wire between C422 and Q406?

Also, out of curiosity, how did you come up with that circuit design?

This site will only let me post about once every other day.  Maybe try asking over at 4hv.org

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 09:14:59 PM »
here is layout.  Traces of R408 are short  as well as C422 to Q406.
nearly all bottom layer is poured with GND. Could it be a problem? 
The circuit is from:
https://www.elektormagazine.com/magazine/elektor-201611/39970
(click download article and see Figure 5)
This ciruit seems to be tested to work and it does work for me but the ringing creates noise which I want to avoid. 

Also I'm reposting this topic at 4hv.org but they do no allow me to post pictures (circuit and and layout)

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 01:06:27 AM »
Why do people make this circuit with all the extra junk?

It's an analog circuit.  It only works because it it has real linear gain at the resonant frequency.  If you try to sharpen up the gate drive edges, or, I'm not even sure what's being done here, some biasing/level shifting or local feedback thing, you're just making it more liable to oscillate at other frequencies, potentially very high frequencies that make it burn up!

The underlying circuit by the way is the Baxandall oscillator (or more accurately, one of the equivalent topologies presented in his titular paper); it's also commonly misnamed "Royer" but that actually refers to the voltage-fed, saturation-commutated version, with an otherwise very similar circuit.

Here's an example of mine which is unfortunately a terrible example for discussing the circuit,



it has basically the same circuit except Q401, Q405, D403 and R416 are deleted (Q401 shorted through C-E), and R408 = 1k.  And equivalent for the other side of course.  There's also a 0.47uF for the VCC bypass.  Runs at ~600kHz, a pair of FDP33N25 I think.

Tim

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 02:27:59 PM »
Hi, could you post a sketch of your circuit - to better understand how it looks/works.
I found identical gate drive circ described on page 53 of this paper:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1265/19da946b5df9b8941a521d5a7019720bcd0d.pdf
However not fully studied it yet...



 

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 09:02:10 PM »
ok, made modifications as T3sl4co1l suggested. The ringing is gone and efficiency (used current) stays the the same. issue seems to be solved.

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 09:49:03 PM »
Hi, could you post a sketch of your circuit - to better understand how it looks/works.
I found identical gate drive circ described on page 53 of this paper:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1265/19da946b5df9b8941a521d5a7019720bcd0d.pdf
However not fully studied it yet...

Looks to be a cromulent paper as such, but seems to lack motivation, innovation and results (the poor efficiency at the end is particularly unimpressive).

That is to say, it looks to have all the trappings of an academic paper; but doesn't seem to have much analytical or engineering value.

Tim

Offline flyrod

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 08:45:17 PM »
Why do people make this circuit with all the extra junk?

So the circuit you're describing is basically the one posted here:?

https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=530.160

This was reverse engineered from an ebay board.

82026:  Did you add a bypass capacitor in addition to removing some parts?


High Voltage Forum

Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 08:45:17 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
Bert911
July 19, 2019, 11:19:45 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
July 19, 2019, 03:36:44 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
DICKEYBIRD
July 19, 2019, 03:24:38 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
July 19, 2019, 02:23:29 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
DICKEYBIRD
July 19, 2019, 01:06:44 AM
post Re: Floppiclene! A Electronics Cleaning Relic of the Past.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Justin
July 18, 2019, 10:29:32 PM
post Re: Floppiclene! A Electronics Cleaning Relic of the Past.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
July 18, 2019, 08:52:35 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
July 18, 2019, 05:49:27 AM
post A new quick way to get into tune a DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
July 18, 2019, 03:13:27 AM
post Re: Floppiclene! A Electronics Cleaning Relic of the Past.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Twospoons
July 18, 2019, 12:06:53 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
July 17, 2019, 07:56:41 PM
post Floppiclene! A Electronics Cleaning Relic of the Past.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
July 17, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Netzpfuscher
July 16, 2019, 07:39:33 AM
post Re: What is the true in tuning guide?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
July 16, 2019, 05:11:21 AM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
profdc9
July 16, 2019, 04:05:07 AM
post Re: DRSSTC in brust mode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
SAMGO
July 16, 2019, 02:25:27 AM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
July 16, 2019, 01:54:30 AM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 15, 2019, 02:51:26 PM
post Re: What is the true in tuning guide?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 15, 2019, 02:48:02 PM
post Re: A problem solved with hand tools
[General chatting]
Mads Barnkob
July 15, 2019, 01:48:08 PM
post Re: Kaizer half bridge driver
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 15, 2019, 01:45:00 PM
post Re: A problem solved with hand tools
[General chatting]
Hydron
July 15, 2019, 11:21:29 AM
post What is the true in tuning guide?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
July 15, 2019, 10:01:21 AM
post A problem solved with hand tools
[General chatting]
klugesmith
July 15, 2019, 07:52:41 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
klugesmith
July 15, 2019, 07:33:30 AM
post Re: tesla coil varnish is dumb
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Hydron
July 14, 2019, 10:49:03 PM
post Re: tesla coil varnish is dumb
[Solid state Tesla coils]
T3sl4co1l
July 14, 2019, 09:59:40 PM
post Re: tesla coil varnish is dumb
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 14, 2019, 08:20:52 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Netzpfuscher
July 14, 2019, 06:06:30 PM
post tesla coil varnish is dumb
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Fumeaux
July 14, 2019, 05:29:10 PM
post Led Closeups with Mobile phone and lens .
[Smart phones]
DashApple
July 14, 2019, 03:00:09 PM
post Re: Drsstc 3
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 14, 2019, 02:06:26 PM
post Re: DRSSTC in brust mode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 14, 2019, 02:04:22 PM
post Re: Twin System Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
oneKone
July 14, 2019, 01:27:18 AM
post Re: DRSSTC in brust mode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
johnf
July 14, 2019, 01:22:15 AM
post Re: Drsstc 3
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
oneKone
July 13, 2019, 03:48:54 PM
post DRSSTC in brust mode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
SAMGO
July 13, 2019, 04:17:55 AM
post Re: Kaizer half bridge driver
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
donnersm
July 12, 2019, 08:54:54 PM
post Re: Kaizer half bridge driver
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
profdc9
July 12, 2019, 07:16:40 PM
post Re: Kaizer half bridge driver
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
profdc9
July 12, 2019, 06:33:00 PM
post Smooth corona or heavy spark, RF wave radiation frequency of Tesla coil drops ve
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
July 12, 2019, 11:09:28 AM
post Re: Drsstc 3
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 12, 2019, 09:56:38 AM
post Re: Drsstc 3
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
oneKone
July 12, 2019, 01:23:58 AM
post Re: Completed my pulsed power generator
[Capacitor banks]
MRMILSTAR
July 11, 2019, 05:48:27 PM
post Re: Completed my pulsed power generator
[Capacitor banks]
Mads Barnkob
July 11, 2019, 02:58:13 PM
post Re: Kaizer half bridge driver
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
July 11, 2019, 02:45:24 PM
post Kaizer half bridge driver
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
donnersm
July 11, 2019, 06:59:01 AM
post Completed my pulsed power generator
[Capacitor banks]
MRMILSTAR
July 11, 2019, 05:43:31 AM
post Re: Twin System Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
fnordest
July 11, 2019, 01:05:42 AM
post Re: "LightningStorm" VTTC project
[Vacuum tube Tesla coils]
Avenger
July 09, 2019, 07:31:37 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30