Author Topic: Choosing IGBT module  (Read 279 times)

Offline Laci

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Choosing IGBT module
« on: January 29, 2019, 09:55:57 PM »
I've benn watching IGBT modules for a while now and found two,but not sure which one is better for my ~150kHz coil.

First,the MG150J2YS40 TOSHIBA module,which is the faster one,with Fmax1=307kHz in the worst case.I planned a full bridge with EU mains rectified to run around at 500A.The datasheet doesn't mention the switching losses so I can't calculate else.



The second is the SKM400GB126DH2 Semikron module (what is the meaning of the H2 suffix?) which is larger than the previous.I calculated Fmax1=350kHz.Sadly,the turn on- and off energy is large ,Eon=29mJ and Eoff=48mJ ,so  Fmax2=20kHz at Tj=80 and Tc=50.This frequency limitation is a bit scary,as I'd like run it at 150kHz.Is it still possible?If the Semikron modules can run at my frequency,a half bridge of it or a full bridge of TOSHIBA modules is more efficient?



Netzpfuscher used similar modules in his Next Gen DRSSTC with lower current rating,but at lower frequency.I bet a medium size coil like mine could produce huge sparks with a compatible Semikron driver and freewheeling,like Philip's DRSSTC V.

The prices are close,two TOSHIBA modules 80 euro,two Semikron modules 105 euro.

Datasheet for the MG150J2YS50,which is newer than what I mentioned,but the same speed:
https://datasheet.octopart.com/MG150J2YS40-Toshiba-datasheet-10733651.pdf

Datasheet for the SKM400GB126D(without H2 suffix):
https://www.semikron.com/dl/service-support/downloads/download/semikron-datasheet-skm400gb126d-22890635.pdf

« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:02:17 PM by Laci »

Offline Netzpfuscher

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2019, 11:58:02 AM »
I use both IGBTs. The SKM200 with around 500A@63kHz Peak and the SKM400 with 1000A@58kHz peak.

You must reduce the switching losses from the datasheet. The numbers are for hardswitching. I get Fmax2=193kHz@1000A with 1000µs Ontime and 800Bps  from my calculations.

Offline Hydron

  • Administrator
  • High Voltage Engineer
  • *****
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2019, 12:51:07 PM »
Note that the gate charge of the SKM400 is pretty massive - that's a lot of power going into gate drive at 150kHz, and you'd struggle to drive it for long on-times (though a UD2.x should be OK for a couple of hundred microseconds).
Do you have any other coil specs you can share? A 400A brick is likely overkill for a small coil and I'd be surprised if there is nothing else on ebay somewhere in between the two modules you've found.

Offline Laci

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2019, 06:07:37 PM »
Thanks for the help,Hydron and Netzpfuscher!

@Netzpfuscher
Well,then it's definitely possible to drive them at 150kHz and I probably wouldn't even go up to 1000A with a medium sized coil.

@Hydron
I planned two different GDTs to drive a full bridge,each on IRFZ44N + IRF4905 output stages which can supply plenty of power I guess.
These are the cheapest used IGBTs on ebay that I found in EU.The prices are really close,so I will choose the Semikron modules.The reason to buy modules is the lack of low inductance design with TO-247 modules and I don't want to order PCBs or etch double sided.

Since the Semikron modules are 1200V and using a full bridge on 320V will not make useful their full voltage,a single module on voltage doubler would be the same?

Here are the coil specs from my first topic:
Now i have the components for the secondary let's see what can I do :D
The coil,as calculated should be:125mm dia.,485mm long(1:3.88),1620 turns.

I hope,that if I can make it,it will work with a SSTC driver,then maybe upgrade to DRRSSTC...
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 06:11:02 PM by Laci »

Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 886
  • Karma: +8/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2019, 08:56:05 PM »
Netzpfuscher is right, you will get horrible results looking at the datasheets hard switching ratings, you can follow my guide on how to make a estimated guess on how well it will perform in soft switching / resonant switching. A rough thumb of rule if you don't want to go into the details, that you can assume switching losses to be 20-40 times lower for soft switching. Then just do a power dissipation calculation with that. http://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk/tesla-coils/drsstc-design-guide/igbts/

MG150 is the best fitted IGBT in regard to silicon-to-coil-size ratio, the SKM400 is a complete overkill for a medium coil, BUT it will also be indestructible! You could just beef up the 24V section of the driver with a powerful PSU and some more capacitance, I did that on my DRSSTC4 with 26V/8A supply just for the gate drive. Add heat sinks!

http://www.kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics

Offline Laci

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 10:33:10 PM »
Thanks,Mads!I only have a UD1.3 driver,so no phase lead,but the Semikron modules can deal with that hopefully.I will try to build a mix of UD3 and UD2.7 to avoid the use of ultrafast comparators and variable inductors.

Does anybody know something about the H2 ending of the SKM400GB126DH2 module?I found no information about it,but there's a similar listing(a bit more expensive)with the SKM400GB126D module that has datasheet.Should I go for the expensive one or the H2 is the same?
@Netzpfuscher which type is your module?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 10:37:14 PM by Laci »

Offline Teravolt

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 56
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile

Offline Laci

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 10:17:42 PM »
Thanks Teravolt,but the shipping price of that to EU is almost as much as the actual price.
Nevermind,I ordered two SKM400GB126DH2 modules for 93 EUR(included shipping),crossed my fingers and waiting for them to arrive.Hopefully they'll be alright!

Thanks for the advices and I'll post as soon as they arrive.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Choosing IGBT module
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 10:17:42 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
pentode
Today at 08:36:58 AM
post Re: Please help me in choosing a driver circuit
[Solid state Tesla coils]
L_Mangold
Today at 02:40:13 AM
post Re: Kaizer DRSSTC1 bridge failure and repair, caught on video.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
dexter
February 22, 2019, 07:47:34 PM
post Re: Kaizer DRSSTC1 bridge failure and repair, caught on video.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Laci
February 22, 2019, 06:10:35 PM
post Re: Kaizer DRSSTC1 bridge failure and repair, caught on video.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
February 22, 2019, 04:34:54 PM
post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
February 22, 2019, 04:34:14 PM
post Kaizer DRSSTC1 bridge failure and repair, caught on video.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 22, 2019, 02:59:46 PM
post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
pentode
February 22, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
February 22, 2019, 10:07:23 AM
post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
pentode
February 22, 2019, 08:28:17 AM
post Re: TL494 Flyback driver oscillator section
[Transformer (ferrite core)]
setkiki
February 22, 2019, 04:28:24 AM
post Re: Please help me in choosing a driver circuit
[Solid state Tesla coils]
bogdan
February 21, 2019, 06:41:27 PM
post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
February 21, 2019, 06:06:46 PM
post Re: Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 21, 2019, 03:15:47 PM
post Bleed R's for MMC caps ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
pentode
February 21, 2019, 02:54:39 PM
post Re: Please help me in choosing a driver circuit
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 21, 2019, 09:37:55 AM
post Re: 160mm PLL sstc
[Solid state Tesla coils]
oneKone
February 21, 2019, 04:44:03 AM
post Re: My X-Ray Machine
[X-ray]
Agent Smith
February 20, 2019, 11:10:28 PM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Teravolt
February 20, 2019, 06:45:41 PM
post Re: Please help me in choosing a driver circuit
[Solid state Tesla coils]
bogdan
February 20, 2019, 03:20:24 PM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Netzpfuscher
February 20, 2019, 10:02:24 AM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Laci
February 20, 2019, 08:42:24 AM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 19, 2019, 08:48:51 AM
post Re: How do I test the max. Ipk of IBGT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
February 19, 2019, 04:54:44 AM
post Re: Primary-Strike Protection Grounding Scheme - Insanity?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Teravolt
February 18, 2019, 09:25:24 PM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Teravolt
February 18, 2019, 09:11:48 PM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
February 18, 2019, 06:38:29 PM
post My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Laci
February 18, 2019, 05:17:53 PM
post Re: Primary-Strike Protection Grounding Scheme - Insanity?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Hydron
February 18, 2019, 08:44:19 AM
post Primary-Strike Protection Grounding Scheme - Insanity?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
nabzim
February 18, 2019, 05:06:18 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
February 18, 2019, 12:13:02 AM
post Re: A place where I can buy a fiber cable/reciever/transmitter for SSTC interrupter
[Light, lasers and optics]
Laci
February 17, 2019, 08:22:04 PM
post A place where I can buy a fiber cable/reciever/transmitter for SSTC interrupter
[Light, lasers and optics]
FilipŠebík
February 17, 2019, 07:04:54 AM
post Re: How do I test the max. Ipk of IBGT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
February 17, 2019, 03:16:00 AM
post It's been a while since I dabbled:
[Solid state Tesla coils]
T3sl4co1l
February 16, 2019, 06:26:43 PM
post Re: SSTC build as per Steve Ward's Mini SSTC - Final Design
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 16, 2019, 12:50:30 PM
post Re: How do I test the max. Ipk of IBGT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 16, 2019, 12:47:45 PM
post How do I test the max. Ipk of IBGT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
February 16, 2019, 05:03:21 AM
post Re: SSTC build as per Steve Ward's Mini SSTC - Final Design
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Thunderstruck
February 16, 2019, 02:16:27 AM
post Re: Aliexpress Yunbao pulse skipping Product Guide manual
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
black.yang
February 15, 2019, 08:54:20 AM
post Re: Aliexpress Yunbao pulse skipping Product Guide manual
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Weston
February 15, 2019, 07:40:34 AM
post Re: Resistor tolerance?
[Beginners]
kamelryttarn
February 14, 2019, 02:27:18 PM
post Re: OneTesla Clone ** Urgent help needed!!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
TonyHV
February 13, 2019, 11:53:07 PM
post Re: OneTesla Clone ** Urgent help needed!!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
February 13, 2019, 09:27:51 PM
post Re: OneTesla Clone ** Urgent help needed!!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
TonyHV
February 13, 2019, 09:06:28 PM
post Re: Aliexpress Yunbao pulse skipping Product Guide manual
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
black.yang
February 13, 2019, 06:57:22 PM
post Aliexpress Yunbao pulse skipping Product Guide manual
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
black.yang
February 13, 2019, 06:55:42 PM
post Re: OneTesla Clone ** Urgent help needed!!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
pentode
February 13, 2019, 06:44:22 PM
post Re: OneTesla Clone ** Urgent help needed!!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
TonyHV
February 13, 2019, 05:23:58 PM
post Re: OneTesla Clone ** Urgent help needed!!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
TonyHV
February 13, 2019, 05:14:58 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30