Author Topic: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"  (Read 42187 times)

Offline petespaco

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Notes on the negative effects of increasing operating frequency of the ZVS induction heaters:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Many of you are probably tired of hearing me talk about being careful to keep the Mosfets from spending much time in the linear mode.
But here I go again:
  We can easily see that the idle current varies when we change work coil designs.

From my own work coil data spreadsheet, I recently noticed that idle current and frequency seem to vary together.  When I plotted 9 pairs of idle current versus frequency observations,  I could see the relationship easily. I got a correlation of about 0.8.  Of course "correlation" does not necessarily equal "causation", but it seems reasonable to me.  It see this relationship as another indicator that higher frequencies create more lost power within the ZVS circuit components themselves.  This, in turn, leads to more stress on, particularly, the Mosfets and the tank capacitors.

But why do we care, as long as things seem to work okay?
 Well, here are a couple of reasons:

1. Assuming that you or your system has a maximum safe current limit, the higher the idle current, the less current there is available for heating the work.
In my case, the maximum sustained current that I will allow on my 1000 watt unit is about 22 amps TOTAL.  And, for my 2500 watt unit, it's 50 amps, TOTAL.
I hope that is clear to everyone.

But--- I think this item is even more important:
2.  The Basic ZVS power circuit that most of these Chinese ZVS induction heaters use works most reliably at a frequency below about 100 kHz.   And, the lower, the better, in my view!!!

So, when you design a new work coil, you need to know whether it will overstress the system or not.
You can quickly check it out by  powering the system up and noting the idle current. That current is primarily heating up the Mosfets and the Capacitors.  Of course it also heats the work coil, but as long as we are water cooling it, we won't worry about that.
   If the idle current is higher than about 8 amps, I think you will be stressing the system more than it was designed to be stressed.
See Chart:



Offline myearwood

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Good day learned ones.
I have been watching videos and reading.
I recently purchased a 2100W zvs induction unit from China. It arrived wired for China. I asked for 120vac, but they ignored that. Is it possible to get an extension cord for my oven socket and use 240v 50amps. I would need clear wiring for a stove socket to this Eaton MPR-48.

I am new here, but not new to technical forums.

Thanks in advance

Mike

Offline petespaco

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Post a link to the product that you bought.

Pete Stanaitis
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Offline myearwood

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Hello Pete. You have very informative videos. I'm glad of your time.

www.wish.com/share/8263ljngsh

Offline petespaco

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Sorry, but I don't know what wish.com is and I do not wish to register there.

I need a link to the advertisement for the place you bought it.

Pete Stanaitis
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Offline myearwood

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Not a problem. I can post screenshots tomorrow. Wish is an online store. Much is sourced from China.
Mike

Offline ritaismyconscience

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It might work even if you plug it into 110V. There seems to be a switch mode power supply underneath and a lot of them work with voltages from 100-240V.

There should be a white label on it, you can see what voltage the power supply is rated for

Offline myearwood

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Hi all. I know it is an Eaton EPR48-3G. Eaton says it "derates" at 110. The attached data sheet does not say that.

I really appreciate your help.

Offline petespaco

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This datasheet does show input voltage derating:
http://www.amppower.de/datas/APR48-3G.pdf
See right hand graph on page 2.

Pete Stanaitis
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Offline myearwood

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Hi Pete. Thanks. The question at hand then is will 1100watts be enough to melt metal? Just plug this in to 120vac with 15amp fuse? It does turn on. I heard you talking about needing to wait for power buildup. Also needing a 12vac for the fans and pump. Can I plug it into the stove outlet with appropriate plug?

Thanks again.

Offline petespaco

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Answers, one at a time:
-Will 1100 watts be enough to melt metal?
    "Yes" to small amounts of copper, aluminum, brass,  silver and gold, etc. using an insulated graphite crucible in the work coil.
     Maybe up to about 200 grams or so.  You can see from my copper melting videos that I have melted as much as about 500 grams with the 2500 watt unit.
    "No" to steel or other ferrous metals.  Once they pass the "curie point" in temperature, (about 1500°F or 815°C) the heating rate drops substantially.

-Also needing a 12vac---
  Aren't the fans and pump built in to and powered by, the device?    For my own units, the fans and pumps are 12 volts DC not AC
Here is a unit that looks like the one you bought:
https://pt.banggood.com/220V-2100W-Mini-Induction-Heating-Machine-Heater-Air-Water-Double-Cooling-DIY-Device-Science-Model-Kit-p-1410359.html?rmmds=buy&cur_warehouse=CN
If it is like yours, I think I see a water pump and I see wires running from the fans to a circuit board below them.

-Can I plug it into the stove outlet with the appropriate plug?
   I assume that your (kitchen?) "stove outlet" is a 220 single phase outlet to answer this question.  If this is true, you could melt about twice as much copper.
   Depending on the stove and the age of the installation, it may have either a 3 wire or 4 wire plug/receptacle.  You will be handling a lot of power and ,
   of course, lethal voltages, so you need to know what you are doing from a safety and fire prevention standpoint. 
   So my answer is "Yes", but I suggest that you  get some help to get the wiring correct.  You don't get a second chance if you get it wrong.

Pete Stanaitis
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Offline myearwood

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Advantages of asking a master. You are correct on your assumptions good sir. I saw discussion of this daughter board being unwise to feed the fans and pumps off the main supply, which may not be needed.
I certainly followed your concerns about water. What of a breaker to power the coil. Is that recommended?

I'd have to replace the china supplied plug.

I will get pro assistance for oven.

Thanks very much again.

Offline petespaco

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Re:
Quote
What of a breaker to power the coil. Is that recommended?
I am pretty certain that most modern switched mode power supplies, such as the one there, are smart enough to only connect their output to the load after they are ready to deliver full power.
  So, a "breaker" or switch between the power supply outlet is not crucial for normal operation.
But I do like to have a way to shut off power to the while still allowing the water pump and fans to run while the induction heater board  cools off..
However, if the pump and fans ARE powered by the DC power supply, (through a small buck converter) you will need to make sure that their buck converter input is connected directly to the power supply's output, not to the induction heater board.
  I can't tell from the pictures whether there is a buck converter off of the 48 volt supply for the pump and fans or whether there is a small separate 220 volt to 12 volts (or whatever that pump takes) power supply that powers them.

Since I do not have one of these exact units in front of me, I have to do some guessing here.
---- I used to be part of a group that had to write completely unambiguous test questions.
You may have NO idea how hard it is to do that.
It can be just a hard to write completely  unambiguous answers to the questions of others sometimes.
So, if what I say does not make sense, feel free to question my answers or to ask for clarification.

I do not consider myself to be a "master" at anything.  Maybe just a page or two ahead of you in the textbook,
Pete Stanaitis
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Offline petespaco

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Put Parts into Workcoil before turning DC power on?

Several people have asked if they can put the workpiece into the work coil BEFORE applying power. This video demonstrates me doing exactly that with samples the draw 3 different amounts of current with no ill effects.  I am using the 2500 Watt Chinese ZVS Induction Heater, running at 48 volts for this test, but I am pretty sure the same relationships will exist with other sizes.  Even IF I NEEDED to put the work into the coil first, I'd want to carefully run a test where I put the parts in AFTER the DC is on, just to make sure I wasn't exceeding safe current levels.

/>
Pete Stanaitis
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Offline arctichominid

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Hello everyone,

New here. But figured I should share what I'm working on.

I submitted a project to the Hackaday 2020 prize that essentially is about shredding aluminum cans, and using a
ZVS induction heater to melt the shredded can material in a crucible that will have a stepper motor raise and lower
the crucible as well as dump the crucible contents into a heated baking tray.

https://hackaday.io/project/171954-aluminum-recycling-micro-factory

Here's the sub-reddit where I've begun collecting useful links related to electric forges, casting aluminum and casting copper and aluminum together
to make aluminum bronze.

https://old.reddit.com/r/ArcticMicroFactory/

I have loads of questions for everyone here if you're available to chat.

Offline petespaco

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Some folks have commented that, although there's a lot of ZVS induction heater stuff on my spaco.org website (and on youtube), it's hard for some to find the exact information they want.
  To make it a bit easier to navigate that data, I recently put a flowchart at the head of both of my main ZVS induction heater pages.  It is designed to direct the user to the pages/youtube videos that will be most helpful.

Here's where the flowcharts reside:
https://spaco.org/Blacksmithing/ZVSInductionHeater/1000WattZVSInductionHeaterNotes.htm

https://spaco.org/Blacksmithing/ZVSInductionHeater/ZVS1800Watt/1800-2500WattZVSInductionHeaterNotes.htm

Sorry that the flowchart is not interactive.  That's for another day.



Pete Stanaitis
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