Author Topic: My second DRSSTC  (Read 733 times)

Offline erdal

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My second DRSSTC
« on: October 15, 2018, 02:35:19 PM »
Hello Again,
I started my work for 2. drsstc. It will be slightly larger in size.
According to my plans;

~100 Khz secondary res.
~450 - ~650 Amps. OCD
IGBT: CM200DU-12NFH (I bought) full bridge 340 v. DC bus voltage
MMC: 8 parallel 3 serial 0.1 uf 2000v MMC (total 0.2506 uf, 6000 v. 72 A. rms, 800 A. peak)
Secondary: 110 mm dia PVC, ~2000 turn @ 0.2 mm enamelled copper wire
Primary: 0.635 mm copper tube, 5-6 turn. Flat spiral design, strike rail by 9 mm copper tube
Lower pedestal: Table from IKEA :)) (I bought)
Topload: 10x50 cm toroid

Edit: Adding Toroid pictures,




I shared some pictures in attachments
I will share the results and construction phases here..

Kind regards,
Erdal
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 03:27:38 PM by erdal »

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2018, 07:47:44 PM »
Solid planning and a design where there is no obvious errors, you will make a great coil here and one that looks stylish on that roller table :)

Winding a primary coil through holes like that goes smooth for the first turn, then it will start locking up and 2-3 turns in you can only move it a cm at a time, so my advise is to make those holes bigger than a snug fit for the primary coil tubing.

What driver are you going to use?
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Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2018, 11:04:15 PM »
Hi Mads,

I'm going to use UD2.7, which I made a little change on. I added the IXYS IXDD430YI to the output. It's 30 amps gate driver with low voltage (under 12.5 v) detect. I have coilcraft 7M3-123 and 7M3-153 for phase lead adjustment. but I guess it won't come out enough. So I bought the slot7 empty core.  If the tubing in the primary coil gets stuck in the holes, I can expand a bit. don't want to get too wide



IGBTs have arrived, bus capacitors and heatsink are also ready



I will use copper strip (25x3 mm) at dc bus design, two parallel 2200/400 bus caps
Two 1.5 uF, 1000v snubber con.



my toroid supplies are also ready;



And my primary tubes and secondary PVC



only their assembly remains :D

Erdal
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:08:36 PM by erdal »

Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2018, 11:00:46 PM »
Hi,
There are some questions that I think of in design;
1- Is it better than the single big gdt for full bridge or is it a small two gdt for every half bridge? which one?


2-I know rf ground will not connect to the home main ground. Where are the main supply ground? I want to use EMI filter in AC main input. It's ground (Y1 caps) where to connect? The main ground should be float? nowhere to connect to any place?


3-How to connect the bus cap to bridge?  Bus Cap 1 connect positive and Bus Cap 3 connect negative (Long wire, red in picture) or positive and negative connect center Bus Cap 2 (short wire, blue and black in picture)



Erdal,

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 08:02:19 PM »
Lots of good pictures there, its nice to get the full view of all parts and what you are building.

The topload ducting that you got, it looks like metallized plastic film and be aware that it has a very low melting point if you have a hot breakout point. I would recommend using a all aluminium flexible ducting instead.

The GDT split is only done for large bricks and I think its only a matter of load sharing a bit, lessen risk of saturation etc, I am not too sure on this, but for CM200 a single GDT will do fine.

You need a good RF ground to lead of the discharge currents but you can also connect your mains ground to the same busbar, just do not use the mains ground for RF ground, the long path of a mains ground will not do anything good for your coil, house, other electronics plugged in etc.

I am not too sure what you are asking about with the capacitors? Are you putting 3 in series to meet voltage specifications of the bus?
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Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 08:39:32 PM »
Hi Mads,

I use 3 2200uf/400v total 6600 uf/400v. Each Irms 8.6 amps, totally 25.8 Amps. 2 of them are enough, but I'll use 3 to be symmetrical.

I wanted to say that; Do I extend the path and connect the cables coming from the bridge to the outermost capacitors? (like your pictures) Or do I connect the middle capacitor?


My design;


Topload, i don't like it too, i'll change it if i can.

I started to wrap the secondary coil ;)


Erdal

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2018, 09:26:07 PM »
As long as you place it like "capacitor - IGBT - capacitor - IGBT - capacitor" you do not need to worry about current paths, as you can not get them any better than that, when mounted directly on the busbar.

The illustration is to show that you need to uphold even current path, to try to even our current sharing between the capacitors. Had you put all the lytics on one side of the IGBTs, that first would supply the most current etc. The illustration does not show that you have to extend anything or use wires, but no matter what you do, you need even current paths.
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Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 04:13:32 PM »
I finished topload with new aluminum flex tubes



Inverter, driver, 220v/30 watt fan, GDT, 50A/1000v bridge etc.




Secondary winding finished. This time I gained experience. No any loop or cross wire :)


Waiting for primary brackets. I guess I'll start first tests next week :))

Edit: adding secondary images

my inverter is finished. Should I add tvs diode? cm200du-12nfh 600 volt igbt, 325 volts bus voltage max. i will use


MMC, 8 parallel, 3 serial 0.1 uf. According to my measurements 0.246 uf


Last edit: primary construction


Erdal
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 07:14:48 PM by erdal »

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2018, 08:43:26 PM »
You are getting some good progress in very few days :)

You don't need TVS on a small busbar bridge like that, they are not fast enough and those two snubber capacitors will do the job just fine.

I am a little curious about the temperatures of your electrolytic capacitors, if the middle one will heat up faster than the two on the sides, we will see at test.

I only got one critique point on the MMC, they are way too close together for proper cooling, but again, wait till test and see if its even a problem.

How many layers of varnish did you give the secondary coil?
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Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2018, 09:34:18 PM »
Hi Mads,
thank you for your answer and comment :)

Quote
How many layers of varnish did you give the secondary coil?
currently only 1 layer.. I'll take a few layers more

I installed the driver and fb/ocd transformers

Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2018, 11:44:37 PM »
Hi,
I finished the secondary coil and the strike rail.
I'm afraid for the first run :)




Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2018, 09:12:18 AM »
Hi,
my secondary coil was damaged :-\
Because, a long wire inside pvc
I started the new secondary winding







Test with old coil, resonance not tuned

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2018, 01:07:29 PM »
Congratulations on first light and a working coil! But a shame with a destroyed secondary coil.

What kind of "long wire" was it you had inside of the secondary coil?

How did the coil form look on the inside?
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Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2018, 10:26:39 PM »
Hi Mads,

Quote
What kind of "long wire" was it you had inside of the secondary coil?
Secondary coil bottom ending wire so long. looping into the pvc and touched secondary inside pvc :)


I use coilcraft 7M-153 for phase lead slot7, but i can't adjust phase lead, still overshoot on IGBTs E to C.  Oscilascope pictures below, Primary ~104 khz, ~120 vdc bus voltage




IGBT's cold, MMC's cold, Bus caps are cold, secondary cold no any heating parts at 160 v bus voltage except for primary

Not adjusting primary with new secondary. Low power test. No any sparks look but good sound quality

me and my DRSSTC II :))


Edit, Tuned interrupt. Only 115v AC, 160v DC, OCD=500A. sparks at ~80 cm  ;D
« Last Edit: November 03, 2018, 05:14:48 PM by erdal »

Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2018, 12:02:05 PM »
Hi,
I changed CT's. Large AL and sizes. phase lead adjusting wonderful now. :)
160 volt DC bus voltage, ~95 khz primary


I use 7M3-153 coil + 51R for phase lead. 1 nf for FB comparator


I think, IXYS IXDD430YI drive better than FDD8424+UCC

one last question left;
How many amps can I run CM200s at most? :))

Primary at test video

160 v ac, 220 v dc bus voltage. Levan Polkka

115 V ac Burst Mode

Erdal,

« Last Edit: November 04, 2018, 06:52:04 PM by erdal »

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2018, 01:38:22 PM »
That was quite a piece of wiring having waving around inside the coil form, really did a job on the inside. Did you discard the coil and form totally and started from scratch with new materials? Can I use your picture in my secondary design guide as a malfunction example?

Could you please tell the specifications of the GDT that gave your switching spike problems and the specifications for the new one that helped the problem, I would like to see what difference in Al, material etc. it is.

Low voltage testing can also be mischievous, as the output capacitance of the IGBT is always the same, it will result in a switching spike that has the same amplitude at low voltage testing as at full voltage, so testing a low voltage that spike can look 2-3 times bigger than your inverter output voltage, but when you are at full voltage it might only correspond to 10%.

Alex Yuan pushed some CM200 bricks up to 850A and his MMC died before the bricks did :) See bottom of page here: http://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk/tesla-coils/drsstc-design-guide/igbts/
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Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2018, 05:52:35 PM »
Hi Mads,

Quote
Did you discard the coil and form totally and started from scratch with new materials?
Yes, I left aside the damaged coil then winding the new coil.
Left new, right damaged coil.


Quote
Can I use your picture in my secondary design guide as a malfunction example?
of course ;)

Quote
Could you please tell the specifications of the GDT that gave your switching spike problems and the specifications for the new one that helped the problem, I would like to see what difference in Al, material etc. it is.

My GDT CF197 material, 49x32x19 mm. Initial Permeability is 7000, AL value is 11500. CAT5 cable, total 15 turns. 5.4 ohm serial resistor on GDT's primary for eliminate gate spikes.

Green coated toroids new CTs. 36x23x15 mm, CF199 material, Initial Permeability is 9000, AL value is 12000. Old T130-26 yellow/white.




Quote
Low voltage testing can also be mischievous, as the output capacitance of the IGBT is always the same, it will result in a switching spike that has the same amplitude at low voltage testing as at full voltage, so testing a low voltage that spike can look 2-3 times bigger than your inverter output voltage, but when you are at full voltage it might only correspond to 10%.

It's a beautiful knowledge..

Quote
Alex Yuan pushed some CM200 bricks up to 850A and his MMC died before the bricks did :) See bottom of page here: http://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk/tesla-coils/drsstc-design-guide/igbts/
My cm200-12nfh 600 volts version. Therefore, I can apply a maximum of ~350 volts bus voltage. I think it will be a ground strike when I give it around 340 volts bus voltage, 650-700 Amps OCD. I don't need more:)) (If I use a larger secondary coil and the cm300du-24f IGBT, it becomes a really powerful drsstc along with the voltage doubler :) )

Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2018, 09:53:28 PM »
Hi,
I made some small changes;
-I've increased the GDT winding by 1 turn. Now total 16 turn CAT5e
-I reduced the primary serial resistance of GDT from 5.4 ohm to 2.7 ohm
-I replaced the FB and OCD CT with a slightly larger 45x26x15 pc40 material (like fairrite 77 or epcos/tdk n87) toroids. 1/625 turn ratio
-OCD setting ~700 amps
-midi interrupter max ontime increased from 100 us to 150 us :)
-MMC changed 8 parallel 3 serial 0.1 uf 2000 v to 9 parallel 3 serial 0.1 uf 2000 v. (72 amps irms/ 800 amps peak to 81 amps irms/900 amps peak total) finally measured 0.2775 uf


after these changes;
-the IGBT gate signal was perfect
-at 151v bus voltage, max peak voltage 220 volts at IGBT E to C. I think, that my target  at 325 volts bus voltage, will be a maximum of 450 volts on IGBTs. It looks good for the health of the IGBTs.
I'm gonna make some noise this weekend :D

Offline erdal

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2018, 06:20:21 PM »
Hi,

OMG!! Final test. Great sparks, up to 1 meters :)

700 amps OCD
320 volt bus voltage
150 us on time
200 bps



below I added some close-up shots;


inverter, mmc, bus caps, IGBT's etc.;


CT's and main supply 23.5 volt ac  toroid transformer;


Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2018, 10:43:50 PM »
Congratulations on a good full power run!

Did you get to record any video of it?

Your MMC upgrade will do you good for long run times and MIDI playing. Thanks for providing more pictures and details on the GDT/CT materials. That Ikea table makes for a good looking Tesla coil base!
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Re: My second DRSSTC
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2018, 10:43:50 PM »

 


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