Author Topic: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC  (Read 900 times)

Offline Michael_DA

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« on: September 27, 2018, 07:40:32 PM »
Hi Guys,

finally the time has come. Yesterday we had our DRSSTC down to a few trifles (a bit cleaner wiring, thicker cables for the prime and some security mechanisms), we finished the coil yesterday and tested today. We only started again with a voltage of 200 V and worked our way up to 560 V. The results were already very impressive for us (this is our first Tesla coil):

                               

We have set the T_On time to 200 us. We have a current of approx. 500-600 A in the primary circuit (in the tests without secondary coil we were at the same T_on time already at approx. 1 kA) and a current of approx. 6A in the secondary coil. So in principle our IGBTs can switch a lot more current. According to the datasheet, they can have a pulse current of 800 A and we have 2 IGBTs connected in parallel. During the test, none of the elements was warmer than 23 °. But first we want do approach step by step, as none of us could accurately assess how the coil reacts. Here are our measurements during the test (yellow = primary current; magenta = secondary current; turquoise = bridge voltage:



However, there was something again, which disappointed us. Namely, in the MIDI playback mostly higher frequencies are not played. That all sounds then, for example. like here at "Imperial March" from Starwars.

/>
Does anyone know why that is? Our guess is that the Interupter will not pass these high frequencies to our controller. Therefore we want to try to lower the songs an octave and try it again. But that's just a guess ...

Here are a few other songs. A friend of us tried to play music via an electric guitar, which worked quite well. However, I would say the sparks were a bit smaller (at least on the video looks like), but in the high-voltage hall, the approximately 3.30 m high coil looks small in comparison to the rest, too.

Game of Thrones Intro:   
/>
Mario Theme: 
/>
Pirates of the carribean:   
/>
First tries with an electro guitar:   
/>
Kind regards,
Michael




« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 07:48:15 PM by Michael_DA »

Offline erdal

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 08:46:15 PM »
Hi Michael_DA,
looks very good, electro guitar is fantastic.

Quote
However, there was something again, which disappointed us. Namely, in the MIDI playback mostly higher frequencies are not played. That all sounds then, for example. like here at "Imperial March" from Starwars.

What is the resonance frequency?
I think because of the low resonance frequency of the great DRSSTC. That's why the sound quality of class E tesla coils, which work in a few MHz, is much better. However, you may also have a problem with midi interrupter. Direct midi instead of analog input gives better results

very good result for initial tests ;)

congratulations...


Offline Michael_DA

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 09:04:57 PM »
Hello erdal,

aaah ye, that could also be a point, thanks for the hint!  :) The resonance frequency is designed low. It is arround 29 kHz.

Offline profdc9

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 214
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2018, 05:18:01 AM »
Which interrupter are you using?  Since the note seems to be totally absent and not just muted, it looks to me like either the interrupter has some sort of limit set in the MIDI note it will play.  It is also possible that the MIDI file is set up incorrectly.  For the oneTesla interrupter that I use, for example, all notes must be channel 0 or they will not play, and if more than 2 notes are played at once, one of the two notes are stopped (it only has 2 note polyphony).  If you want to examine this the MidiEditor program is very handy:

https://www.midieditor.org/

I also attached some music that I adapted for the oneTesla interrupter if that's what you're using.

If you want, you can look at the DRSSTC PCB Pack I made

https://github.com/profdc9/DRSSTC-PCB-Pack

The "interrupter" project is a multiple function interrupter and includes the oneTesla MIDI interrupter on it if you want to build one yourself.  You will need an ATTINY85 and an AVR programmer.

Dan

Offline futurist

  • Global Moderator
  • High Voltage Technician
  • *****
  • Posts: 116
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2018, 11:34:10 AM »
I agree with profdc9, it seems that the interrupter ignores second note if one is already playing and higher frequency notes are not causing the problem

Offline Uspring

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 98
  • Karma: +6/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2018, 11:44:33 AM »
Impressive coil  :)

Quote
We have set the T_On time to 200 us. We have a current of approx. 500-600 A in the primary circuit (in the tests without secondary coil we were at the same T_on time already at approx. 1 kA) and a current of approx. 6A in the secondary coil. So in principle our IGBTs can switch a lot more current.

You can try to tune the primary somewhat lower, i.e. a bit more out of tune. That will reduce power transfer to the secondary initially, leading to higher primary currents. After the arc breaks out, its capacitance will lower secondary resonance frequency, pulling it into tune with the primary leading to an efficient transfer of primary energy to the secondary. You may need to increase burst time for this. Bad for high notes, but good for arc length.


Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 990
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2018, 12:57:21 PM »
That is definitely a interrupter "problem", a low frequency coil will always be able to play high notes, just with shorter streamers as there is no time to ring up enough current.

Even a large and very low impedance primary circuit DRSSTC will play high notes just fine and spark length will not be limited as bad as Uspring makes it sound, sure you are not getting ground strikes with high notes, but it will still be impressive from a large coil and require ear defenders :)

Example of Kizmo's BiggerDR playing high notes. He run with a 1uF MMC.

/>
I am really envious of your access to a HV hall like that, I am so limited by my small work shop  :'(
http://www.kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics

Offline Michael_DA

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2018, 06:28:14 PM »
Alright, thank you for the many tips!
We suspect that the Interupter has a security function at too high a sound, we will examine it more closely and see if we can disable it or at least partially bypass it. If necessary, we have another Interrupter, we still have to build, but that would be the alternative in any case.

Quote
I am really envious of your access to a HV hall like that, I am so limited by my small work shop  :'(

Haha yes, the many space and possibilities in the high-voltage hall are very beneficial. :) However, there are also some disadvantages. With the large Marx-Generator in the background more often gas breakdowns in eg SF6 with lightning impulses around 1.5 MV are produced. At the beginning, unfortunately, we also have some small electronics, such as Receiver for optical fibers, broke because of the high EMI. :(

Kind regards
Michael

Offline Michael_DA

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2018, 09:35:19 AM »
Hi Guys,
we have solved our problem. Our interrupter has a protective function, so that it does not transmit any more signal from a certain pitch. But with the help of audio programs, we can simply lower the pitch of a song completely an octave, so actually every song should be possible. :)
Alternatively, we now have a second functional Interupter with which we can choose between 3 different protection functions. So all sounds are possible. Here you can also set the maximum T_On time for the highest tone, we have this (for fear of continuous tones) limited to 100 us.

Here is a video of a complete song, but only at 200 V bus voltage, because we did not want to break the fluorescent tube. (It still broke in second 12 ::) ;D)

Thank you for your tips!  :)


High Voltage Forum

Re: First Midi tests with our new DRSSTC
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2018, 09:35:19 AM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: (DR)SSTC music MIDI files
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
profdc9
Today at 05:36:38 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
Today at 04:56:10 PM
post Re: Strange GDT signals (need to help)
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Phoenix
Today at 11:55:27 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
Today at 05:51:09 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
Today at 04:07:17 AM
post Strange GDT signals (need to help)
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
Today at 02:19:24 AM
post Re: Easy access to optimal resonance frequency but the benefit is quite small
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
Today at 02:00:48 AM
post Re: Strange gdt waveforms
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
Today at 01:33:56 AM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
May 22, 2019, 08:31:55 PM
post Re: Easy access to optimal resonance frequency but the benefit is quite small
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
dexter
May 22, 2019, 08:31:51 PM
post Easy access to optimal resonance frequency but the benefit is quite small
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
VNTC
May 21, 2019, 11:35:57 PM
post Re: Offgrid 48V solar to 24V battery setup
[Electronic circuits]
Mads Barnkob
May 21, 2019, 09:59:54 PM
post Re: General Oscilloscope Probing Techniques for (DR)SSTC h-bridge
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
May 21, 2019, 09:51:27 PM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
T3sl4co1l
May 21, 2019, 09:49:03 PM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
82026
May 21, 2019, 09:02:10 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Vaclav
May 21, 2019, 08:59:57 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
May 21, 2019, 08:28:43 PM
post Re: Identification of unknown embedded computer, help needed.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
May 21, 2019, 08:22:28 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Vaclav
May 21, 2019, 06:21:37 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
May 21, 2019, 06:12:55 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
profdc9
May 21, 2019, 04:06:38 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Vaclav
May 21, 2019, 03:56:56 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Vaclav
May 21, 2019, 03:46:56 PM
post Re: DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
profdc9
May 21, 2019, 02:32:59 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
May 21, 2019, 06:12:18 AM
post Re: Offgrid 48V solar to 24V battery setup
[Electronic circuits]
profdc9
May 20, 2019, 11:30:34 PM
post DRSSTC design questions + project progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Vaclav
May 20, 2019, 06:38:54 PM
post Re: General Oscilloscope Probing Techniques for (DR)SSTC h-bridge
[Beginners]
Teravolt
May 20, 2019, 06:33:49 PM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
82026
May 20, 2019, 02:27:59 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
May 20, 2019, 02:57:46 AM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
T3sl4co1l
May 20, 2019, 01:06:27 AM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
82026
May 19, 2019, 09:14:59 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
May 19, 2019, 06:40:41 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
flyrod
May 19, 2019, 04:04:12 PM
post Re: Offgrid 48V solar to 24V battery setup
[Electronic circuits]
Mads Barnkob
May 19, 2019, 11:24:46 AM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
flyrod
May 19, 2019, 03:22:54 AM
post Re: Are bleeder resistors necessary if I can easily discharge my capacitor?
[Spark gap Tesla coils]
profdc9
May 19, 2019, 03:18:52 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
May 18, 2019, 10:48:59 PM
post Re: Is one of these good?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Golddustpeak
May 18, 2019, 04:19:11 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
May 17, 2019, 10:57:17 PM
post Are bleeder resistors necessary if I can easily discharge my capacitor?
[Spark gap Tesla coils]
jpb133
May 17, 2019, 09:41:56 PM
post Re: Is one of these good?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Uspring
May 17, 2019, 12:41:17 PM
post ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
82026
May 16, 2019, 04:15:58 PM
post Re: Identification of unknown embedded computer, help needed.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Fumeaux
May 16, 2019, 02:19:39 PM
post Re: Is one of these good?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Golddustpeak
May 16, 2019, 01:50:44 PM
post Re: Is one of these good?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Uspring
May 16, 2019, 12:17:01 PM
post Re: Identification of unknown embedded computer, help needed.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Fumeaux
May 16, 2019, 08:45:15 AM
post Re: Identification of unknown embedded computer, help needed.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
May 15, 2019, 11:49:59 PM
post Re: Identification of unknown embedded computer, help needed.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Hydron
May 15, 2019, 10:51:33 PM
post Identification of unknown embedded computer, help needed.
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
May 15, 2019, 09:35:41 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30