Author Topic: Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?  (Read 1637 times)

Offline Patric

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?
« on: August 25, 2018, 12:08:07 PM »
Dear all,
Most tesla coil designs feature a closed surface toroid top load whereas only the very large ones use toroids build from tubing rings. Can someone explain how a ringed top load compares to a closed surface one in terms of capacitance and overall performance? On a ringed torus what are the minimum gaps between the rings?
Thanks, Patric


Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • High Voltage Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1457
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2018, 03:37:33 PM »
Hi Patric and welcome to HVF

I made two calculations in JavaTC, one for a solid toroid and one for a 7 ringed skeleton toroid and there is less than 10% difference in capacitance, you can see them here: http://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk/tesla-coils/drsstc-design-guide/topload/

The skeleton toroid is a trade-off, it can not reach the same charge voltages that a super smooth solid toroid would, but a skeleton toroid only costs a fraction to produce.

Performance wise in a Tesla coil where we want to create lightning, there is not much difference. We need to shape a decent field to just keep the arcs away from the secondary and primary coils and we are happy :)
A solid toroid is however highly needed when you want to suppress outbreak, which electrons find very hard to do from the very even surface of a solid toroid, this could be in large HVDC installations for power transmission or those famous marx generator installations found overgrown in Russia.
http://www.kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline Patric

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2018, 08:21:27 AM »
Thx Mads, that's very interesting and opens up some more unusual design ideas that I have for skeleton toroid (love that word). I will share some CAD renderings once I am there.
Cheers Patric

Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • High Voltage Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1457
  • Karma: +24/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2018, 10:32:19 PM »
There are some good and ingenious ways of doing ringed/tube/skeleton toroids. I did the boring/normal 7 rings horizontal, but check these out.

From Zrg: http://4hv.org/print.php?plugin:forum.165062


From a instruable with all calculations needed: https://www.instructables.com/id/Tesla-Coil-Wound-Aluminum-Toroid/

http://www.kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline Uspring

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
  • Karma: +13/-0
  • Physicist
    • View Profile
Re: Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2018, 12:14:32 PM »
I once used a skeleton toroid with 8mm tubes. It had the tendency to break out from the bottom even though I had used a breakout rod. That lead to arcs ending on the primary. The larger effort to bend fatter tubes is well spent.


High Voltage Forum

Re: Difference between closed surface toroid and ringed toroid?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2018, 12:14:32 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
SteveN87
Today at 07:16:43 PM
post Re: making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Teravolt
Today at 02:54:33 PM
post Re: Charging a LiPo Battery with an LED driver
[Electronic Circuits]
TMaxElectronics
Today at 12:42:50 PM
post Re: Charging a LiPo Battery with an LED driver
[Electronic Circuits]
Twospoons
Today at 12:23:58 PM
post Re: Single sided use of Xray XFMR
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
HighVoltageRulezz
Today at 11:15:07 AM
post Re: making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
Today at 04:41:24 AM
post Re: Charging a LiPo Battery with an LED driver
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
Today at 04:06:09 AM
post Re: Charging a LiPo Battery with an LED driver
[Electronic Circuits]
TMaxElectronics
Today at 01:58:47 AM
post Re: Charging a LiPo Battery with an LED driver
[Electronic Circuits]
Twospoons
Today at 12:56:02 AM
post Charging a LiPo Battery with an LED driver
[Electronic Circuits]
TMaxElectronics
August 11, 2020, 11:24:18 PM
post Re: making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Teravolt
August 11, 2020, 06:34:05 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lightning On Demand
August 11, 2020, 04:19:01 AM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lightning On Demand
August 11, 2020, 04:17:27 AM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lightning On Demand
August 11, 2020, 04:10:34 AM
post Re: Single sided use of Xray XFMR
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
klugesmith
August 11, 2020, 03:33:02 AM
post Single sided use of Xray XFMR
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
HighVoltageRulezz
August 10, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
post Re: XRay Tank- any ideas about what is inside
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
HighVoltageRulezz
August 10, 2020, 12:18:04 PM
post Re: making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
johnf
August 10, 2020, 10:24:54 AM
post Re: making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
August 10, 2020, 06:20:04 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
RoadReaper
August 10, 2020, 05:40:19 AM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
August 10, 2020, 02:07:26 AM
post making HV bobbins for ferrite transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Teravolt
August 10, 2020, 01:27:22 AM
post A Tesla coil and an antenna
[General Chat]
TheFreq
August 09, 2020, 09:02:32 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Steve Ward
August 08, 2020, 10:22:04 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
T3sl4co1l
August 08, 2020, 03:36:40 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
acmq
August 08, 2020, 02:07:52 AM
post Re: LSI Nitrogen Laser tear-down and Homemade TEA Nitrogen and Dye Lasers
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
LesWright
August 06, 2020, 10:20:12 PM
post Re: LSI Nitrogen Laser tear-down and Homemade TEA Nitrogen and Dye Lasers
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
Weston
August 06, 2020, 08:45:59 PM
post Re: Cathodes in Compact Fluorescent Lamps
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
klugesmith
August 06, 2020, 05:41:04 PM
post Re: Dual MOT tesla coil
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Jun
August 06, 2020, 03:53:58 PM
post LSI Nitrogen Laser tear-down and Homemade TEA Nitrogen and Dye Lasers
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
LesWright
August 06, 2020, 03:28:14 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
AstRii
August 06, 2020, 12:59:03 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
August 06, 2020, 10:51:43 AM
post Re: How much is the voltage used in Corona Discharge tubes for ozone Generation?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
UB_Serpent
August 06, 2020, 08:40:57 AM
post Re: compact midi interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
August 06, 2020, 03:22:38 AM
post Re: Dual MOT tesla coil
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
August 05, 2020, 11:48:55 PM
post Re: How much is the voltage used in Corona Discharge tubes for ozone Generation?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
August 05, 2020, 11:37:13 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
AstRii
August 05, 2020, 08:01:11 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lightning On Demand
August 05, 2020, 06:34:08 PM
post Re: How much is the voltage used in Corona Discharge tubes for ozone Generation?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Uspring
August 05, 2020, 12:56:32 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
August 05, 2020, 12:55:52 PM
post Re: Bipolar high voltage multiplier project - more than 70cm hot arc discharge
[Voltage Multipliers]
Teravolt
August 04, 2020, 09:21:09 PM
post Re: How much is the voltage used in Corona Discharge tubes for ozone Generation?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
johnf
August 04, 2020, 09:16:55 PM
post Re: Does anyone know how this site works.
[General Chat]
thedoc298
August 04, 2020, 05:53:03 PM
post Re: Does anyone know how this site works.
[General Chat]
thedoc298
August 04, 2020, 05:51:03 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lightning On Demand
August 04, 2020, 05:17:26 PM
post Re: Fun with wireless power
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Max
August 04, 2020, 02:14:56 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
August 04, 2020, 02:08:07 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
futurist
August 04, 2020, 10:48:35 AM
post Re: How much is the voltage used in Corona Discharge tubes for ozone Generation?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
UB_Serpent
August 04, 2020, 10:02:39 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal