Author Topic: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC  (Read 1263 times)

Offline profdc9

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TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« on: February 07, 2018, 06:23:46 PM »
I found the following IGBT from On/Fairchild.  Any comments on how it might hold up for a DRSSTC at 300 A or so?

FGY120T65SPD-F085

https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/308/FGY120T65S_F085-1123742.pdf

In particular why it looks like a good choice to me are these specs:

Turn-on-delay time    53  ns
Rise time                  134 ns
Turn-off-delay time    102 ns
Fall time                   115 ns
with 15 V VGE.

650 V,  120 A continuous collector current
Pulsed collector current 378 A

Collector current at 25 C   240 A
Collector current at 100 C  220 A
Diode forward current     240 A

They're a bit pricey at $12.79 a piece but they seem to possibly be quite rugged.  Any comments on how this might hold up?

Thanks,

Dan

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 07:37:05 PM »
Hydron gave a extensive look into the similar FGY75N60SMD which you can see here: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=193.0
http://www.kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics

Offline Hydron

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2018, 12:39:31 PM »
What sort of coil are you planning on? Standard DRSSTC? QCW (and if so, with buck or phase shift modulation)? What frequency are you planning on running at?

From a quick look at the datasheet, the IGBTs you found are slower and have higher switching losses than the 60/75A parts commonly used in QCW coils, but have lower on-state voltage. In a standard soft switched coil at moderate frequency this is probably a good trade-off, but for fast hard-switched applications is likely not.

Depending on what sort of coil you want to build, you may find that any of the following options are best:

a) use the parts you found, single bridge - a little pricey but simple if you're able to deal with the mounting side of things (need clips/clamps and a PCB)
b) use something like FGY75N60SMD/FGH60N60SMD in a dual bridge configuration - may be cheaper and will have lower thermal resistance (as it's spread over 2 parallel devices), but more complicated
c) find a couple of small half-bridge bricks - one of the reason people use dual IGBT bricks rather than single parts is the ease of use of just bolting stuff together without PCBs

Depending on your MMC configuration you can also do some tricks to use multiple parallel half bridges with forced current sharing, though there are some drawbacks. I'm using 4 bridges in parallel, for a total of 16 (!!) TO-247 devices (this is why I wanted to get them cheap!). In soft switched applications these tricks are likely unnecessary if the parts are thermally coupled and have a positive temperature co-efficient (just stick a few in parallel and try and equalise the inductance as best as possible).

Offline profdc9

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2018, 04:43:08 PM »
I was trying to find an alternative to some of these old parts as you were looking to do in your thread.  I was hoping to take advantage of the higher peak current allowable by the part I selected, but I may try the one you used first (FGY75N60SMD).  Are you having any luck with those parts from aliexpress?  If so, I may order some.

I am building my first DRSSTC and I would like to get to about 1.5 to 1.8 kW (about the amount available from one circuit at 120 VAC @ 15-20 A).  I was thinking of using a full bridge because then the current would be halved and the voltage doubled over using a half bridge, even though it would require 4 IGBTs, so that for 300 A of peak collector current I can get a bit more power out of the bridge.

From what I understand, going above 300 A peak current is reaching the limits of what the TO-247 package can handle anyways, so the higher peak current may not be usable in practice.  Maybe once I am comfortable with this I can try a pair of CM600HA-24H.

Dan
 

Offline Garyf

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2018, 01:35:12 AM »
I started with similar observations: there's plenty of power available from a standard 110v wall socket, and I wanted to use TO-247s because I purchased some bridge boards, and because the devices are cheap from AliExpress.  When you blow a pair of them up it's $2-$3 instead of $30-$50.
The first bridge board I bought called for 4 20n60a4d's, I ordered a bunch, so that's what I'm still using.  My goal was to see how hard I can push them.  I won't bore you with the whole history, but I think I'm close to max performance: Full bridge, 300 bus volts, 300 peak amps, ~500 watts from the wall socket, and about 600mm of arc. 
My next improvement is to see if I can double that performance by adding a second parallel bridge board with separate MMCs driving the same primary, as suggested by Loneoceans. 

Offline profdc9

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2018, 04:09:16 AM »
I am working on a half-bridge board that has four IGBTs in each side of the half-bridge, so that the IGBTs are driven in parallel.  It is 10 by 10 cm.  It has 30+ mm traces for the current.

Dan

Offline Hydron

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2018, 03:40:41 PM »
The parts I got from Aliexpress in the thread Mads linked (https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=193.0) were all good, but it is still a bit of a gamble. If they'd work for your application, the 60N6x parts are cheap enough from western suppliers that it's not really worth going for the risky option unless you're on a very tight budget.

I would definitely use a full bridge with 600V devices, as it immediately doubles the effective voltage available (especially important on 120V supply).

I also saw the PCB you made - I would suggest trying to make it into a full bridge PCB rather than a half bridge, then you can add another PCB in parallel if needed. You may be able to get away with simply putting the IGBTs in parallel, or if that doesn't share the current well enough, you can split the MMC up into sections to run in parallel with forced current sharing (this is more complicated as the MMC needs to be able to be split into at least 4 equal sections).

If I get time I'll make a new topic about the arrangement needed for forced current sharing - it's not complicated and has been successfully used by Steve Ward (and probably others), and I have done simulations on it for my own coil.

Offline profdc9

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 08:44:35 PM »
Well I was thinking of using two half bridge boards together each as one half of a full bridge.  Are there any issues with having the two half bridges on different boards, as long as the input power connections are tightly coupled?  Or do they need to share the same DC Link capacitors on the same board?  It's harder to do the layout for 8 transistors and a full bridge on the small board, but I give it a go.

Dan


Offline Laci

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2018, 10:45:28 PM »
Hi Dan,
I know this post is a bit outdated,but do you remember if the 20N60A4D's had the 300A limitation?I just want to know the possibilities of my current SSTC setup for upgrading to a DRSSTC.My transistors are 30N60A4D's with a lower pulse current rating than the 20N60A4D's(240A and 280A) in a full bridge configuration.

Offline Hydron

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2018, 11:51:56 AM »
Well I was thinking of using two half bridge boards together each as one half of a full bridge.  Are there any issues with having the two half bridges on different boards, as long as the input power connections are tightly coupled?  Or do they need to share the same DC Link capacitors on the same board?  It's harder to do the layout for 8 transistors and a full bridge on the small board, but I give it a go.

Dan
Laci's reply brought my attention back to this - I have done some thinking about this exact issue recently and have come to the conclusion that different boards are fine - you will get the full primary tank current flowing between them on the power connections, but this is a nice sine wave - no switching transients etc so just size the cable big enough and you're OK, no need to worry about anything other than big enough and not unnecessarily long (it will simply add to the primary inductance). The power connections between the boards are also another place to locate the primary CT - in my case with multiple parallel bridges and a split MMC, this turns out to be the most convenient location, with no high voltages (like will be present on both ends of the primary coil with a split MMC) to worry about.

Laci - I would pay more attention to the thermal resistance number than the small difference in Icm in this case - the 30 part is much lower than the 20 part, which indicated a larger die inside. And worst case if you pop the 30s you can try again with something different!

Offline profdc9

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2018, 08:35:12 PM »
I have not used the transistors you are talking about but looking at the data sheet they seem to be limited to 280 A also.  I used the FGH60N60SMD on my DRSSTC, and two of those in parallel, to have a full bridge of 8 transistors total, and so far it has held up to all the abuse I have subjected it to.  According to the data sheet these only have 180 A peak pulsed collector current relative as compared to the transistors you selected, however, the maximum power dissipation and average collector current ratings are higher.  I'm not sure why it would be this way, as I would think that the average and maximum peak currents would scale together.  I have attached the datasheets for both for you to look at.  I have been intended to try a different IGBT with nearly identical characteristics to the FGH60N60SMD but unfortunately with lower maximum power dissipation rating because the FGH60N60SMD seems hard to get these days.

Dan

http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/FGH60N60SMD_F085-D.PDF

Hi Dan,
I know this post is a bit outdated,but do you remember if the 20N60A4D's had the 300A limitation?I just want to know the possibilities of my current SSTC setup for upgrading to a DRSSTC.My transistors are 30N60A4D's with a lower pulse current rating than the 20N60A4D's(240A and 280A) in a full bridge configuration.

Offline dexter

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 08:30:13 AM »
i built a small-ish DRSSTC using  HGTG30N60A4D half bridge config (no parallel IGBT's)
with OCD set at 250A i get half a meter sparks

Offline Laci

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2018, 04:39:40 PM »
Thank you for the information!In this case I will set the OCD under 250A if I will try it double resonant.Hopefully my CT's are OK.

Offline dexter

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 08:03:37 PM »
Thank you for the information!In this case I will set the OCD under 250A if I will try it double resonant.Hopefully my CT's are OK.

for my coil i started low at 100A and slowly increased from there

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Re: TO-247 IGBT for DRSSTC
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 08:03:37 PM »

 


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