Author Topic: steam engine  (Read 1626 times)

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2020, 01:48:58 AM »
I'm planning on increase the capacitance tell its large enough for all the water to turn to steam or hydrogen/oxygen, I think getting up to 90uF should give a more accurate picture of the input.
Ive got ltspice will check this out just in case, each capacitor of the cap bank is 450Vac, 320Vdc about.
Cheers

Attached sicmatic, the green is across inductor.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 02:55:32 AM by plasma »

Offline Twospoons

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2020, 04:39:41 AM »
Based on your 0.25ml of water you are going to need a very big capacitor to vaporize it all.
With a specific heat of 4.2J/g/K its going to take ~84J just to heat from room temp to 100C.
Then to turn that into steam, the latent heat of vaporization is 2260 kJ/kg, or 2260 J/g, meaning another 565J to turn 0.25ml of 100C water into 100C steam.

That's over 3000uF at 640V.

And that's assuming 100% efficiency too, so your cap is going to have to be bigger still.

Did you run the math before you started this project?

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2020, 11:35:48 AM »
Its not just joule heating, there's electysis and then the return of some of the energy on recombation.
There's also increase in pressure with no volume change which gets converted to heat.
Is it local or global heating, all at 100 degrees or local pockets at 300.
Its not exactly easy.

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2020, 01:20:33 PM »
The Scr and parts arrived, I use a 12V source to trigger the Scr by shorting a connection.
This is the component used https://www.digikey.co.nz/product-detail/en/vishay-semiconductor-diodes-division/VS-70TPS16PBF/VS-70TPS16PBF-ND/2632107 .
The inductor measures about 3uH , the two resistor equal 44ohm with a diode just in case anode shorts to gate.
The salt gap makes about the same noise as before.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 01:32:11 PM by plasma »

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2020, 03:28:14 AM »
Building a new salt gap to test more Joule's on. Running some numbers on the design with conserve variables.
vthroat =sqrt(2*k/k+1*R*Tthroat) =395m/sec
R =461 for water vapor
Tthroat=300
k=1.3
V1 =R*T1/p1 = 0.27
p1 = 505000
Vthroat =V1*(k+1/2)^1/k-1 =1.10
Athroat =mVthroat/vthroat = 2.78mm2 for the size of the hole, the chamber will be 20mm ID with the inner electrode 12mm. I plan to fibreglass one end of the pipe, and weld flat bar over the other.
I'll be getting more caps next week, the Scr and resistors don't get hot, I was worried that I might exceed the wattage of the gate, did notice when I got a good contact to switch the Scr on, it resulted in a larger shot.

The sounds a mulfed but a blue arc can be seen inside.

Changed my cap bank to 2 in series 4 in parrellel given 60uF 30J at 1000V.
I added the salt water read 4 ohms across the gap and fired it, it made a small pop sound.
I think that I can measure the resistance across the gap to get approximately the mL in the chamber. The chamber has a slightly larger ID than the previous but should work with more energy.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2020, 07:24:10 AM by plasma »

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2020, 10:35:41 PM »
The chamber above didn't workout, there was to much salt water for a given resistance.
I've moved back to the pic attached, it has 0.5mL and I plan to modify it so I can inject water into the gap.
I upgraded the wiring on the cap bank, its getting to the stage were ear muffs are compulsory.

The last picture is the injector idea, gravity feed at first, but a slow continuous flow from a pump should work.

I'm thinking that maybe 4 of the above feeding into a central tube might be better than one large chamber and a lot of energy.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 03:41:04 AM by plasma »

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2020, 04:01:47 AM »
Tested out a system to have salt water fill up the gap between electrodes, it works well, the problem is the connection from the wire to the electrodes, it arcs when fired.
The back pressure when fired delays the topping up, but after a shot it froths at the exit between electrodes.

The third picture shows the froth, a lot of small bubles. Upgraded the charging circuit by parrellel more capacitor, it now takes 2 seconds to reach full charge on the bank.
The latest shot must have cleared a blockage, the water flows quicker into the gap.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2020, 10:47:48 PM by plasma »

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2020, 07:08:27 AM »
I check the numbers on the choke to limit A/uS it was to low which probably have shown up later with longer pulses. Got 30 turns on 25mm pipe.

The Scr seems to be turning off prematurely, there's still 200 V on the cap bank, I though that would be enough to supply 150mA holding current?

I thought that maybe the charging circuit was raising the voltage on the cap bank, but increase to 4uF doesn't seem to change the value.

I probably should have noticed it early, it charges to -536V then after the discharge goes to 106V, this is with a 50% voltage divider.
I tried adding a diode after the choke for the Scr but didn't do much, its probably the choke between charge circuit and cap bank.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 03:54:34 PM by plasma »

Offline davekni

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2020, 01:56:26 AM »
Yes, if the R of your salt gap is low enough, then the L/C will ring past 0V.  You can calculate the resonant frequency of your cap bank combined with the inductor, then calculate the impedance of the L or C.  They'll be the same impedance except for phase at resonance.  If the salt gap resistance is lower, then expect the voltage reversal.  (Salt gap resistance will change as the solution heats, so only a scope trace could verify the real situation.)
David Knierim

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2020, 07:04:51 AM »
Do you think it would be a good idea to put a diode in reverse across the SCR?
If I increase the size of the capacitor bank it should lower the reverse voltage?

My DMM can't read inductor that low but it should be about 5-6uH, with 75uF I get 0.28ohms for impendence at 8217Hz and last I checked the salt gap should be 3-5ohms, would that be accurate for 200V?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 07:22:51 AM by plasma »

Offline davekni

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2020, 08:09:25 PM »
A diode across the SCR is a good idea.  That way all the energy will end up in the salt gap, and the charging circuit doesn't need to start from a reverse voltage.  Another option is to put a diode across the capacitor.

Your calculations look good.  The salt gap resistance is clearly dropping during the discharge, perhaps forming an arc.  Resistance must be dropping to ~0.28 ohms.  The effect of more capacitance is hard to predict, as that will also change the salt gap resistance during the discharge.
David Knierim

Offline plasma

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2020, 05:00:19 AM »
Thanks Davekni

About 8 years ago on www.4hv.org there was a thread were someone had Ali foil in a barrel with a little water, the video showed a lot of reaction out the non closed end.

I tried rolling up small Ali balls and placed them in the chamber, the Ali turned to AlOH after a shot and aloud noise.
I have patched up the chamber to fix leaks and a slightly larger volume, guessmate 2mL.

I should be getting some more caps to take it 90uF 45J and some 6A diodes.

The Gibbs free energy of water is 237kJ/mol 13.1kJ/g which is a lot for a small amount, hoping other elements or salts can lower the input.

I'm going to try some different salts, and look at Ali foil more.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 05:34:47 AM by plasma »

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Re: steam engine
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2020, 05:00:19 AM »

 


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