Author Topic: Bidirectional charge pump  (Read 302 times)

Offline HiVi

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Bidirectional charge pump
« on: April 19, 2020, 01:28:00 PM »
While thinking about voltage conversions, i got an idea to modify the charge pump that would enable bidirectional current flow. Picture bellow, sorry for non standard schematics.

The idea is to swap diodes with controlled switches, mosfets for example. Instead of driving capacitor strings, you drive switches that equalize the voltages of connected capacitors.
Driving of mosfets could be done with another capacitor string or optoisolated gate drivers.
The whole circuit works as voltage equilizer of capacitors. You can load the 1xV point, and supply the voltage at 4xV, or vice versa. The string can be longer, power can be loaded or applied at any point.

Has anybody seen such circuits already? Could not find it on internet, yet it seems quite useful.
Seems quite great for transformer replacement if you switch from AC to DC grid. I was always more of a DC guy.

Offline davekni

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Karma: +22/-0
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
David Knierim

Offline Weston

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bidirectional charge pump
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2020, 08:59:27 PM »
The general topic you are referring to is "Switched Capacitor Converters". http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~pel/seminars/APEC09.pdf

Switched capacitor converters can only efficiently produce integer ratio voltage conversion ratios and can require a lot of switches, so historically they have not been used that much, and typically in lower power applications. I have used this chip before to produce negative voltage ratios: https://www.ti.com/product/LM27762

Now that control circuity and transistors are becoming somewhat cheaper switched capacitor converters are becoming more popular. In research people are using a single small inductor to enable zero voltage switching and non-integer ratio voltage conversion ratios and getting pretty high efficiency and power density.

Offline HiVi

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bidirectional charge pump
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2020, 09:31:04 PM »
Yes the mentioned battery cell balancing is a good example of such circuit.

I know about switched capacitor converters, but usually they are used to double or inverse voltages as mentioned. Also charge pumps are always used to raise voltage, never have i seen them used for lowering voltages.

Looking from standpoint of lowering high voltages, you are limited to staging no matter what you use. Either capacitive or inductive energy storage for energy conversion. Transoformers can handle only a limited volume of hv insulation before they get too big. Also switching at high voltage side of transformer is not simple task once above few kV.
Of course I am talking about DC power systems where switching is a must.

I agree that switched capacitor are becoming more interesting lately due to advancements in semiconductors and therefore lower prices.
I am quite interested how far we will get with SiC and GaN and possibly some other new chemistry of semiconductors.

Offline johnf

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 88
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bidirectional charge pump
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2020, 02:04:24 AM »
That is what the CUK convertor is all about

Offline Weston

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 61
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bidirectional charge pump
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2020, 03:41:46 AM »
Yes the mentioned battery cell balancing is a good example of such circuit.

I know about switched capacitor converters, but usually they are used to double or inverse voltages as mentioned. Also charge pumps are always used to raise voltage, never have i seen them used for lowering voltages.

Looking from standpoint of lowering high voltages, you are limited to staging no matter what you use. Either capacitive or inductive energy storage for energy conversion. Transoformers can handle only a limited volume of hv insulation before they get too big. Also switching at high voltage side of transformer is not simple task once above few kV.
Of course I am talking about DC power systems where switching is a must.

I agree that switched capacitor are becoming more interesting lately due to advancements in semiconductors and therefore lower prices.
I am quite interested how far we will get with SiC and GaN and possibly some other new chemistry of semiconductors.

Inductors are a lot more lossy and less power dense than capacitors so there are are advantages in reducing the usage of inductors, which is motivating a lot of the current research in the area.

With the right switch implementation these topologies are typically invertible, so the lack of a step down implementation is more of a market fit thing. 

A professor at UCB uses stacked switch capacitor converters (with a small inductor for zero voltage switching) for step up and step down applications, which is pretty similar to what you are talking about.
Sadly, they are not open access and it does not look like he hosts the preprints on his website like many professors do, but if you can get access here are some papers on it: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8915699  https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8444977

That is what the CUK convertor is all about

Although it has a capacitor through which energy is transferred, the cuk converter is not typically considered a switched capacitor type converter. Its more derivative of boost / buck converters and it is impossible to implement without the inductors.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Bidirectional charge pump
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2020, 03:41:46 AM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Isn't there a better way to make a custom toroid?
[General Chat]
Rowdy
May 24, 2020, 11:47:26 PM
post Re: GDT cable specs
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
costas_p
May 24, 2020, 11:09:44 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Rowdy
May 24, 2020, 10:39:45 PM
post Re: GDT cable specs
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
station240
May 24, 2020, 09:55:49 PM
post Re: Working Principle Of Neon Transformer Circuit
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
May 24, 2020, 09:55:48 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
May 24, 2020, 08:16:40 PM
post Re: GDT cable specs
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
thecyberman
May 24, 2020, 05:38:27 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Rowdy
May 24, 2020, 02:33:55 PM
post Re: Freewheeling diodes are burning (Now other problems)
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
hip424
May 24, 2020, 02:31:39 PM
post Re: Working Principle Of Neon Transformer Circuit
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
iraquois
May 24, 2020, 02:08:53 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
May 24, 2020, 12:12:36 PM
post Re: Working Principle Of Neon Transformer Circuit
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
ritaismyconscience
May 24, 2020, 07:56:21 AM
post Re: Freewheeling diodes are burning (Now other problems)
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
ritaismyconscience
May 24, 2020, 03:09:57 AM
post Re: Working Principle Of Neon Transformer Circuit
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
May 23, 2020, 10:24:55 PM
post Re: GDT cable specs
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
johnf
May 23, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
post GDT cable specs
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
costas_p
May 23, 2020, 09:06:39 PM
post Re: Working Principle Of Neon Transformer Circuit
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Mads Barnkob
May 23, 2020, 08:22:59 PM
post Re: Freewheeling diodes are burning (Now other problems)
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
May 23, 2020, 07:47:49 PM
post Re: Building a bigger DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
May 23, 2020, 07:41:41 PM
post Working Principle Of Neon Transformer Circuit
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
iraquois
May 23, 2020, 02:09:26 PM
post 600 Watt GEL Battery Charger Teardown - Signet Systems HB600-24B
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
May 23, 2020, 12:46:23 PM
post Re: Building a bigger DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ritaismyconscience
May 23, 2020, 04:14:52 AM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ritaismyconscience
May 22, 2020, 01:15:36 AM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mugi30
May 21, 2020, 11:55:37 PM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
May 21, 2020, 07:46:28 PM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mugi30
May 21, 2020, 09:15:57 AM
post Re: How to get rid of stuff?
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
johnf
May 21, 2020, 06:35:31 AM
post Re: How to get rid of stuff?
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
MRMILSTAR
May 21, 2020, 05:23:40 AM
post Re: Easy to build Polyphonic MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
futurist
May 21, 2020, 12:16:04 AM
post Re: How to get rid of stuff?
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
May 20, 2020, 11:22:34 PM
post Re: Powerful easy to build MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
May 20, 2020, 12:15:43 PM
post Re: Portable Q(uarantine)CW Tesla Coil
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
SteveN87
May 19, 2020, 02:08:20 PM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mugi30
May 19, 2020, 12:05:51 PM
post Re: Powerful easy to build MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
May 19, 2020, 11:49:02 AM
post Re: Powerful easy to build MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Mads Barnkob
May 19, 2020, 09:26:06 AM
post Re: Portable Q(uarantine)CW Tesla Coil
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Weston
May 19, 2020, 07:55:54 AM
post Re: What's the best way to trigger these things?
[Capacitor Banks]
klugesmith
May 19, 2020, 01:55:11 AM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ritaismyconscience
May 18, 2020, 11:54:27 PM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mugi30
May 18, 2020, 10:10:09 PM
post Re: New projet OmegaDR
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mugi30
May 18, 2020, 10:05:14 PM
post Re: What's the best way to trigger these things?
[Capacitor Banks]
johnf
May 18, 2020, 09:03:11 PM
post Re: What's the best way to trigger these things?
[Capacitor Banks]
John123
May 18, 2020, 07:50:08 PM
post Re: Powerful easy to build MIDI Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
May 18, 2020, 04:15:16 PM
post Re: Freewheeling diodes are burning (Now other problems)
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
hip424
May 18, 2020, 03:13:14 PM
post Re: How to get rid of stuff?
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
May 18, 2020, 06:31:25 AM
post Re: Building a bigger DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ritaismyconscience
May 18, 2020, 03:18:40 AM
post Re: What's the best way to trigger these things?
[Capacitor Banks]
davekni
May 18, 2020, 02:26:27 AM
post Re: What's the best way to trigger these things?
[Capacitor Banks]
rikkitikkitavi
May 17, 2020, 11:17:06 PM
post Re: Secondary parameters
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Alberto
May 17, 2020, 10:18:22 PM
post Re: SSTC Micro
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
May 17, 2020, 09:42:29 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal