Author Topic: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?  (Read 309 times)

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi all,
Trying to make ZVS mazzilli circuit with active gate driver and getting bad ringing at switch over. While trying to debug it, found most noisy point to be on collector of Q401(Q402).
Here is my circuit attached with scope traces of that point and of ouputs. Could somebody experienced give a hint what causes this ringing and how to fight it?


Offline flyrod

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2019, 03:22:54 AM »
What does the signal on the other end of R408 look like?

What does your circuit layout look like?  For example, how long is the wire between C422 and Q406?

Also, out of curiosity, how did you come up with that circuit design?

This site will only let me post about once every other day.  Maybe try asking over at 4hv.org

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2019, 09:14:59 PM »
here is layout.  Traces of R408 are short  as well as C422 to Q406.
nearly all bottom layer is poured with GND. Could it be a problem? 
The circuit is from:
https://www.elektormagazine.com/magazine/elektor-201611/39970
(click download article and see Figure 5)
This ciruit seems to be tested to work and it does work for me but the ringing creates noise which I want to avoid. 

Also I'm reposting this topic at 4hv.org but they do no allow me to post pictures (circuit and and layout)

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2019, 01:06:27 AM »
Why do people make this circuit with all the extra junk?

It's an analog circuit.  It only works because it it has real linear gain at the resonant frequency.  If you try to sharpen up the gate drive edges, or, I'm not even sure what's being done here, some biasing/level shifting or local feedback thing, you're just making it more liable to oscillate at other frequencies, potentially very high frequencies that make it burn up!

The underlying circuit by the way is the Baxandall oscillator (or more accurately, one of the equivalent topologies presented in his titular paper); it's also commonly misnamed "Royer" but that actually refers to the voltage-fed, saturation-commutated version, with an otherwise very similar circuit.

Here's an example of mine which is unfortunately a terrible example for discussing the circuit,



it has basically the same circuit except Q401, Q405, D403 and R416 are deleted (Q401 shorted through C-E), and R408 = 1k.  And equivalent for the other side of course.  There's also a 0.47uF for the VCC bypass.  Runs at ~600kHz, a pair of FDP33N25 I think.

Tim

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2019, 02:27:59 PM »
Hi, could you post a sketch of your circuit - to better understand how it looks/works.
I found identical gate drive circ described on page 53 of this paper:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1265/19da946b5df9b8941a521d5a7019720bcd0d.pdf
However not fully studied it yet...



 

Offline 82026

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 09:02:10 PM »
ok, made modifications as T3sl4co1l suggested. The ringing is gone and efficiency (used current) stays the the same. issue seems to be solved.

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • High Voltage Experimenter
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 09:49:03 PM »
Hi, could you post a sketch of your circuit - to better understand how it looks/works.
I found identical gate drive circ described on page 53 of this paper:
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1265/19da946b5df9b8941a521d5a7019720bcd0d.pdf
However not fully studied it yet...

Looks to be a cromulent paper as such, but seems to lack motivation, innovation and results (the poor efficiency at the end is particularly unimpressive).

That is to say, it looks to have all the trappings of an academic paper; but doesn't seem to have much analytical or engineering value.

Tim

Offline flyrod

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 08:45:17 PM »
Why do people make this circuit with all the extra junk?

So the circuit you're describing is basically the one posted here:?

https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=530.160

This was reverse engineered from an ebay board.

82026:  Did you add a bypass capacitor in addition to removing some parts?


High Voltage Forum

Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2019, 08:45:17 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: "LightningStorm" VTTC project
[Vacuum tube Tesla coils]
Avenger
Today at 03:18:07 PM
post Re: Onetesla TS driver board for OWN coil need some help
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
donnersm
Today at 03:18:03 PM
post Re: Onetesla TS driver board for OWN coil need some help
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
Today at 02:56:29 PM
post Re: SSTC interruptor not working
[Solid state Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
Today at 11:46:44 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Mads Barnkob
Today at 11:45:11 AM
post Re: "LightningStorm" VTTC project
[Vacuum tube Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
Today at 11:40:18 AM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Netzpfuscher
Today at 07:46:25 AM
post Re: Si-wafers, ideas?
[Electronic circuits]
Weston
Today at 07:07:57 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
Today at 05:45:55 AM
post Re: My first DRSSTC on bricks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Laci
June 24, 2019, 09:26:47 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
Bert911
June 24, 2019, 04:58:39 PM
post Re: Static electricity measurement
[Static electricity]
Doros
June 24, 2019, 01:56:17 PM
post Re: "LightningStorm" VTTC project
[Vacuum tube Tesla coils]
Avenger
June 24, 2019, 01:28:59 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Patrick
June 24, 2019, 12:47:16 AM
post SSTC interruptor not working
[Solid state Tesla coils]
juuzpo
June 23, 2019, 10:58:48 PM
post Re: Is one of these good?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Golddustpeak
June 23, 2019, 07:22:47 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Jeff B
June 23, 2019, 05:52:56 PM
post Re: Onetesla TS driver board for OWN coil need some help
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
dexter
June 23, 2019, 03:15:53 PM
post Onetesla TS driver board for OWN coil need some help
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
donnersm
June 23, 2019, 10:09:40 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Patrick
June 23, 2019, 10:07:04 AM
post Vacuum Epoxy Potting Attempt in Progress... (Pic Update 6/23/19)
[Transformer (ferrite core)]
Patrick
June 23, 2019, 08:50:14 AM
post Re: Si-wafers, ideas?
[Electronic circuits]
johnf
June 23, 2019, 01:28:20 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Twospoons
June 23, 2019, 01:17:50 AM
post Re: Si-wafers, ideas?
[Electronic circuits]
Twospoons
June 23, 2019, 01:04:13 AM
post Re: What happens when L and C are not matched?
[Electronic circuits]
Twospoons
June 23, 2019, 01:02:55 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Coupling
June 22, 2019, 11:10:02 PM
post Re: ZVS Mazzilli circ with active gate driver - what causes ringing?
[Electronic circuits]
flyrod
June 22, 2019, 08:45:17 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
flyrod
June 22, 2019, 08:36:34 PM
post Impressive 500,000 watt radio station from the 1930's
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
June 22, 2019, 06:18:22 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
June 22, 2019, 05:47:22 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
T3sl4co1l
June 22, 2019, 05:21:58 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
hightemp1
June 22, 2019, 06:10:01 AM
post Re: Siemens Polyphos 30 xray machine
[X-ray]
Mads Barnkob
June 21, 2019, 09:08:16 AM
post Re: Choke-input DC-filter
[Electronic circuits]
johnf
June 20, 2019, 08:58:07 PM
post Re: CRT hacking ideas....
[Electronic circuits]
badpeter
June 20, 2019, 07:28:00 PM
post Re: Ideas needed!
[General chatting]
MRMILSTAR
June 20, 2019, 05:13:57 PM
post Re: Why did 4HV die??
[General chatting]
MRMILSTAR
June 20, 2019, 05:07:41 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic circuits]
Bert911
June 20, 2019, 02:14:55 PM
post Re: Choke-input DC-filter
[Electronic circuits]
kamelryttarn
June 20, 2019, 12:53:58 PM
post Re: Choke-input DC-filter
[Electronic circuits]
johnf
June 20, 2019, 12:09:27 PM
post Choke-input DC-filter
[Electronic circuits]
kamelryttarn
June 20, 2019, 11:43:58 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
shrad
June 20, 2019, 08:57:42 AM
post Re: adventures in homemade flyback bobbins.
[Transformer (ferrite core)]
Patrick
June 20, 2019, 04:06:00 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
johnf
June 20, 2019, 03:50:56 AM
post Re: CRT hacking ideas....
[Electronic circuits]
petespaco
June 19, 2019, 11:29:28 PM
post Re: A dynamical arc model v2
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Uspring
June 19, 2019, 01:40:16 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General chatting]
Mads Barnkob
June 19, 2019, 10:49:45 AM
post Re: A dynamical arc model v2
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils]
Mads Barnkob
June 19, 2019, 10:43:32 AM
post Re: Light, laser and optics - Link collection
[Light, lasers and optics]
shrad
June 19, 2019, 10:03:54 AM
post Re: How go get single mode optic fiber to work
[Light, lasers and optics]
shrad
June 19, 2019, 10:02:21 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30