Author Topic: Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC  (Read 137 times)

Offline Simranjit

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Hi everyone  ;D,

I'm trying to understand upper and lower pole working of tesla coil. I will try to explain here what I understood so far. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=78.msg624#msg624
1) It is preferred to run QCW DRSSTC at upper pole.
2) Difference between running frequency (fu) and secondary resonance frequency (fs) should be as less as possible.
    -----------fl----fp---------------fs----fu-----------> f
3) What is (f) in above statement. Is it implying that we can/should run UD2.7 (self-oscillating) slightly above upper-pole ?


Tracking upper and lower poles: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=2041.0
I will attach JAVATC results and LTSPICE for my coil below (using 7pF toroid):
4) Toroid = 7p
    Lower pole = 64.15kHz (Primary resonance = 67.42kHz)
    Upper pole = 123.09kHz (Secondary resonance = 81.01kHz). Difference: 42kHz
    Percent detuned: 16.77 %   
    This difference between fu and fs seems like a lot. Increasing primary capacitance further doesn't make much of a difference.
   
    Toroid = 11.5p
    However, If we increase toroid capacitance (larger toroid) from 7p to 11.5p. Results are:
    Lower pole = 61.15kHz (Primary resonance = 67.42kHz)
    Upper pole = 103.09kHz (Secondary resonance = 73.85kHz). Difference: 29 kHz
    Percent detuned: 8.7%

5) Am I going into the right direction ? Anymore suggestions / feedback. What else should I look into ? Thank you very much :)


« Last Edit: July 09, 2024, 08:06:22 PM by Simranjit »

Offline Anders Mikkelsen

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Re: Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2024, 06:28:19 PM »
1) It is preferred to run QCW DRSSTC at upper pole.

Most people prefer to run QCWs on the upper pole as it gives a more linear response of power vs bridge voltage. Lower pole operation leads to the tank drawing more power as the secondary gets additional capacitive loading from the arc, making it hard to slowly ramp the power up.

Quote
2) Difference between running frequency (fu) and secondary resonance frequency (fs) should be as less as possible.
    -----------fl----fp---------------fs----fu-----------> f
3) What is (f) in above statement. Is it implying that we can/should run UD2.7 (self-oscillating) slightly above upper-pole ?

It's not true that you want the difference between the upper pole frequency as close to the natural resonant frequency of the secondary. This would imply either as low coupling as possible (which is the opposite of what you want in a QCW) or a heavily down-tuned primary (which would make it behave more like a single resonant SSTC). I've seen multiple recommendations to use as high coupling as practical, and to tune the primary so that the system approaches optimal tuning with the expected arc load added. Optimal being Fpri = Fres here. So Lpri*Cpri = Lsec*(C_sec+C_toroid+C_arc). Then primary impedance is selected to match the capabilities (voltage, current) of your bridge.

Quote
Tracking upper and lower poles: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=2041.0
I will attach JAVATC results and LTSPICE for my coil below (using 7pF toroid):
4) Toroid = 7p
    Lower pole = 64.15kHz (Primary resonance = 67.42kHz)
    Upper pole = 123.09kHz (Secondary resonance = 81.01kHz). Difference: 42kHz
    Percent detuned: 16.77 %   
    This difference between fu and fs seems like a lot. Increasing primary capacitance further doesn't make much of a difference.
   
    Toroid = 11.5p
    However, If we increase toroid capacitance (larger toroid) from 7p to 11.5p. Results are:
    Lower pole = 61.15kHz (Primary resonance = 67.42kHz)
    Upper pole = 103.09kHz (Secondary resonance = 73.85kHz). Difference: 29 kHz
    Percent detuned: 8.7%

5) Am I going into the right direction ? Anymore suggestions / feedback. What else should I look into ? Thank you very much :)

To grow the longest possible sparks with a given input power and topload voltage, you want to grow them as straight as possible, and this implies an operating frequency of 300+ kHz

Offline flyingperson23

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Re: Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2024, 06:52:42 PM »
3) What is (f) in above statement. Is it implying that we can/should run UD2.7 (self-oscillating) slightly above upper-pole ?

I'm pretty sure it just denotes that it's a frequency axis.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2024, 06:52:42 PM »

 


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