Author Topic: Primary Frequency too High  (Read 1980 times)

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
Primary Frequency too High
« on: April 22, 2021, 06:52:48 PM »
I am trying to troubleshoot a DRSSTC. It's a small coil using SKM100, full bridge and it designed
to run at about 120KHz. I'm using the UD2.7C thru-hole board.

The problem I am trying to figure out is that the coil is oscillating at about twice the
expected frequency. The SKM100s are not happy and the drain current (such as it is) looks like
a triangle wave. I am running the coil at a buss voltage of about 60 volts to troubleshoot the thing.
The buss voltage is generated through a Variac driving a doubler.

I've built a fair number of coils and they have all started at near the design frequency. I have
measured the tank cap and the primary inductance using a DE-5000 LCR meter and they are all within
5% of the expected value. Even a basic LC resonance calculation says that I should be getting 120KHz.

EDIT:

I decided to disconnect the FB transformer and drive the UD2.7C directly with a signal generator. Set it at 120KHZ and 500mVpk-pk.
The bridge drives the primary just dandy with a textbook current and voltage waveform. I'm even getting
little bitty sparks from the secondary/toroid. So the bridge works, the UD2.7C works. And since I got oscillations when I attch the FB transformer
I think the transformer is functioning.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 12:08:06 AM by alan sailer »

Offline davekni

  • Executive Board Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2767
  • Karma: +132/-1
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Primary Frequency too High
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2021, 01:19:19 AM »
Have you tried reversing CT phase?  That would be my guess.
David Knierim

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Primary Frequency too High
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2021, 01:27:18 AM »
Dave,

Crapping crud. It works.

I know my knowledge of coils is shallow but I though it was binary. Get the phase wrong, nothing. Get the phase right, bingo.

So can you, for a me being a dunderhead, explain why?

If not, much thanks anyhow. You made my afternoon. I was ready to go to an astrologer.

Cheers.

Offline davekni

  • Executive Board Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2767
  • Karma: +132/-1
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Primary Frequency too High
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2021, 05:55:46 AM »
With reversed CT connection you are starting with 180 degrees phase shift, exactly out of phase.  At 240kHz your driver and IGBTs have enough delay (additional phase lag) to total close enough to 360 degrees to oscillate.

One possible contributing factor is if you don't have phase-lead enabled on your UD2.7 driver.  Adjusting phase lead for ideal switching at 120kHz (H-Bridge outputs switching just before current zero-crossing) would likely preclude enough lag at 240kHz for reverse-CT oscillation.
David Knierim

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 279
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Primary Frequency too High
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2021, 03:51:31 PM »
Dave,

Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense to me and is something a lot more subtle than my basic SSTC
knowledge covers. It also explains why I have not seen this problem in any of my previous SSTC builds
(two QCW and one conventional, all full bridge). I was just lucky.

The phase shift inductor was in place but at this point I have no idea if it is the right value.

Once again thanks. I am not sure that I would have ever figured it out given my basic understanding
of FB.

Cheers.

Offline davekni

  • Executive Board Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2767
  • Karma: +132/-1
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Primary Frequency too High
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 08:04:58 PM »
Alan,

You are certainly welcome.  Great to hear that it made sense.
David Knierim

High Voltage Forum

Re: Primary Frequency too High
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2021, 08:04:58 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Medium Drsstc question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
Today at 08:04:16 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
Today at 06:48:05 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
Today at 06:18:40 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
Today at 06:14:53 PM
post Re: 3D printed mini-slayer: world's weakest tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
unrealcrafter2
Today at 05:44:44 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
Today at 03:12:12 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
unrealcrafter2
Today at 02:28:01 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
Today at 01:56:26 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
Today at 06:50:47 AM
post Re: IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
Today at 04:57:47 AM
post Re: IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ethanwu0131
Today at 03:40:53 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
Today at 01:31:17 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 11:19:52 PM
post 3D printed mini-slayer: world's weakest tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 11:10:19 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
alan sailer
April 15, 2024, 11:04:19 PM
post Re: Ignitron trigger drive ideas?
[Capacitor Banks]
Twospoons
April 15, 2024, 11:02:05 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 10:57:59 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 10:55:46 PM
post Re: Return of Electronics Flea Market in "Silicon Valley"
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
April 15, 2024, 10:37:32 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
April 15, 2024, 10:05:00 PM
post Re: How to get a GE Yokogawa AB40 Sync Scope to rotate without a powerplant.
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
MRMILSTAR
April 15, 2024, 09:28:50 PM
post Ignitron trigger drive ideas?
[Capacitor Banks]
klugesmith
April 15, 2024, 09:06:42 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 15, 2024, 08:46:32 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Benbmw
April 15, 2024, 08:38:39 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
sky-guided
April 15, 2024, 08:23:40 PM
post How to get a GE Yokogawa AB40 Sync Scope to rotate without a powerplant.
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
Bobakman
April 15, 2024, 06:43:23 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 15, 2024, 06:29:10 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 05:21:53 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 05:15:33 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 15, 2024, 04:07:54 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
April 15, 2024, 03:49:03 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
alan sailer
April 14, 2024, 09:46:30 PM
post Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
April 14, 2024, 07:31:00 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
April 14, 2024, 02:26:19 PM
post Re: mg75q2ys40 IGBT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2024, 07:20:54 AM
post Re: IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2024, 07:18:20 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 13, 2024, 06:46:40 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 13, 2024, 04:18:42 AM
post Re: Upper and Lower Explosive Limits on Confined Flammable Vapors at -79 C.
[General Chat]
alan sailer
April 13, 2024, 03:24:20 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
alan sailer
April 13, 2024, 03:20:46 AM
post Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 13, 2024, 03:13:22 AM
post Re: Capacitor Blowout
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
lbattraw
April 12, 2024, 09:14:58 PM
post mg75q2ys40 IGBT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedark
April 12, 2024, 08:40:18 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 07:20:30 PM
post Re: Mosfet Buffer Stage Questions
[Beginners]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 07:12:43 PM
post IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ethanwu0131
April 12, 2024, 04:47:33 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
April 12, 2024, 11:43:36 AM
post Mosfet Buffer Stage Questions
[Beginners]
Egg
April 12, 2024, 12:49:02 AM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 12:41:16 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 12:22:41 AM
post Re: Capacitor Blowout
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 10:45:53 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
April 11, 2024, 07:39:30 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 11, 2024, 07:24:52 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
sky-guided
April 11, 2024, 06:09:30 PM
post UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
April 11, 2024, 12:55:16 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 03:40:00 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
sky-guided
April 11, 2024, 03:05:07 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 02:57:33 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 01:44:32 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 01:31:40 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 11, 2024, 01:11:00 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 12:58:52 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 12:31:37 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 12:30:21 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
alan sailer
April 10, 2024, 11:41:46 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
April 10, 2024, 11:33:32 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 10:41:33 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
MRMILSTAR
April 10, 2024, 10:31:31 PM
post Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 09:56:35 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
unrealcrafter2
April 10, 2024, 08:59:26 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
markus
April 10, 2024, 06:35:30 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 10, 2024, 05:35:14 PM
post Medium Drsstc question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
unrealcrafter2
April 10, 2024, 03:07:02 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 03:42:12 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 03:41:04 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
sky-guided
April 10, 2024, 02:50:23 AM
post Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Unrealeous
April 10, 2024, 01:32:17 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 10, 2024, 01:26:29 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 10, 2024, 01:18:35 AM
post Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 09, 2024, 07:34:19 PM
post Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 09, 2024, 06:14:27 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
markus
April 09, 2024, 06:08:53 PM
post Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
markus
April 09, 2024, 05:15:19 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 09, 2024, 05:11:04 PM
post Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
April 09, 2024, 06:32:16 AM
post DRSSTC V1 using BSM150
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Unrealeous
April 09, 2024, 04:04:47 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 09, 2024, 03:27:11 AM
post Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 09, 2024, 03:25:47 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 09, 2024, 03:01:40 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
sky-guided
April 09, 2024, 02:46:46 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 08, 2024, 09:32:57 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 08, 2024, 09:25:11 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 08, 2024, 08:45:15 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 08, 2024, 08:24:13 PM
post Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 08, 2024, 04:02:48 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 08, 2024, 03:45:30 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedark
April 08, 2024, 03:35:32 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 08, 2024, 03:12:45 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 08, 2024, 03:03:26 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
April 08, 2024, 02:24:41 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal