Author Topic: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors  (Read 2649 times)

Offline werd

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Aspiring Zeus
    • View Profile
Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« on: September 19, 2020, 08:13:55 AM »
I think I'm a little bit confused here... are the two .68uF caps in this photo considered DC Blocking Capacitors, or is there a separate category for half-bridge voltage splitter capacitors (meaning that this photo only has a smoothing cap and then two voltage splitter caps but no DC blocking cap)? And if these aren't called DC Blocking Capacitors, I have yet to figure out what goes towards deciding their capacitance. Does the capacitance not necessarily even matter because all we really care about is the voltage they create across the primary?

https://www.stevehv.4hv.org/SSTC5/miniSSTCsch.JPG

I've been spamming this forum lately, so thank you to everyone who has been kindly helping me out!
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 08:18:15 AM by werd »

Offline klugesmith

  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2020, 10:13:44 PM »
If the DC bus spanned by C12 (420 uF) were ideal,
then C7 and C8 would not need to match each other, and could both connect to the negative rail or both to the positive rail.  All that matters is that their sum is 1.36 uF.   In practice, as drawn, they also provide 0.34 uF of high-frequency-capable capacitance in parallel with C12.

The DC voltage on node they share with L1 is near the middle of primary DC bus voltage, but that has nothing to do with the C7:C8 capacitance ratio.  The voltage will match the DC level at the other end of L1, which is determined by relative on-time of Q1 and Q2.

You could call C7 and C8 DC-blocking capacitors, if they are not designed to resonate with L1.  That question is best answered by a Tesla coiler.

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: +9/-0
    • View Profile
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2020, 04:40:21 AM »
Yes.  The symmetry is useful: the MOSFET half-bridge on the left, the C divider on the right.  When power is applied but before switching starts up, the midpoint is halfway between the supplies -- C divider works just like an R (or any other impedance) divider.  When switching starts up, it generates a 50% square wave, which has an average of *gestures calculatoringly* halfway between the supplies -- point is, minimal startup transient is applied to the primary, because both sides are balanced.

Whereas if it were unbalanced, just a 1.36uF to + or -, the instant it starts switching, a transient is guaranteed, where one transistor or the other carries a big gulp of current (and probably the other transistor is hard-switching into that current too) and eventually things settle down to steady state.

The film caps also serve as local bypass for the MOSFETs, assuming they're placed adjacent.  When any one transistor turns off, the voltage across it shoots up (pulled by the resistive-to-inductive load current it was carrying), and that overshoot stops when the load current transfers to another device (namely the opposing transistor, or D1/D2 but they're superfluous as the MOSFETs have much beefier body diodes in them already).  Which means that loop has to be closed, and C7/C8 do just that.

And yeah, the value is small enough that it's probably resonant.  Which is fine, it can be both.  If resonant, that does at least mean the startup transient is short, and not much amplitude -- essentially, the point is to generate essentially that transient response, every half cycle, and to have them build on each other as they overlap over time.  In that case, it's not so important that one side or the other gets the first hit (or even that one is accidentally double the magnitude, i.e. the cap charges to one side but the opposing transistor turns on first), but still, the bypassing effect of both across the supply is helpful.

Tim

Offline Zipdox

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
    • Zipdox
Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2020, 09:13:12 AM »
They make up a capacitive divider for the half bridge. But because a capacitive divider can only conduct AC, that also makes them DC-blocking capacitors.

Offline klugesmith

  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2020, 06:57:13 PM »
T3sl4co1l explained the DC voltage division by C7 & C8, during the transient when DC bus is powered up.   ( Perhaps useful if DC bus voltage risetime is not very slow compared to the C7 & C8 time constants. )

Don't like to call them a capacitive divider for AC.  What AC voltage is divided or split?

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
  • Karma: +9/-0
    • View Profile
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2020, 06:48:34 AM »
Even if the DC bus rises slowly, it's still not "DC". :)

More practically speaking: "AC" is any rate that's faster than the capacitors' natural discharge rate in this circuit.  Which is quite slow (seconds+) so it tends to sit at the midpoint until used.

Tim

Offline klugesmith

  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 701
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 05:59:21 PM »
Good point, Tim, the time constant of C7 and C8 is from nothing but their own leakage.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Am I Misunderstanding of DC Blocking Capacitors
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2020, 05:59:21 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Help with LabCoatz's Staccato QCW DRSSTC
[Beginners]
hal7rr
Today at 05:24:34 PM
post Re: Type 77 Metglas Laced Ferrite Core
[General Chat]
NyaaX_X
Today at 10:39:24 AM
post Re: Type 77 Metglas Laced Ferrite Core
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
Today at 07:02:20 AM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
NyaaX_X
Today at 06:40:50 AM
post Type 77 Metglas Laced Ferrite Core
[General Chat]
paulp1776
Today at 06:23:59 AM
post Re: Weird AC/DC mini SSTC build review
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
Today at 05:27:22 AM
post Re: Quick question about steve ward mini SST5 resonant frequency
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
alan sailer
Today at 01:37:37 AM
post Re: designing and building electron gun help!
[General Chat]
Twospoons
Today at 12:10:44 AM
post designing and building electron gun help!
[General Chat]
Luca c.
May 10, 2024, 09:38:05 PM
post Re: Quick question about steve ward mini SST5 resonant frequency
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
May 10, 2024, 09:24:21 PM
post Re: Quick question about steve ward mini SST5 resonant frequency
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
alan sailer
May 10, 2024, 08:43:11 PM
post Quick question about steve ward mini SST5 resonant frequency
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
May 10, 2024, 08:33:47 PM
post Weird AC/DC mini SSTC build review
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
May 10, 2024, 05:34:15 AM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Michelle_
May 10, 2024, 05:08:38 AM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
Twospoons
May 10, 2024, 03:02:13 AM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
davekni
May 10, 2024, 01:39:53 AM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
Twospoons
May 10, 2024, 12:06:50 AM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
klugesmith
May 09, 2024, 07:10:19 PM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
klugesmith
May 09, 2024, 06:59:22 PM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Michelle_
May 09, 2024, 03:42:49 PM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Michelle_
May 09, 2024, 03:06:19 PM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
May 09, 2024, 01:05:26 PM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
NyaaX_X
May 09, 2024, 09:15:24 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Lasr8
May 09, 2024, 04:45:33 AM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
davekni
May 09, 2024, 03:56:52 AM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Michelle_
May 09, 2024, 02:16:30 AM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Michelle_
May 09, 2024, 02:00:28 AM
post Re: Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
unrealcrafter2
May 09, 2024, 12:48:57 AM
post Re: Capacitor Blowout
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
radioman
May 08, 2024, 09:04:54 PM
post Question about using mains power and variacs to power this circuit
[Beginners]
Michelle_
May 08, 2024, 08:10:41 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
May 08, 2024, 07:33:43 PM
post Re: How do you measure HV current?
[Beginners]
unrealcrafter2
May 08, 2024, 07:33:31 PM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
NyaaX_X
May 08, 2024, 01:31:28 PM
post Re: Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
Twospoons
May 08, 2024, 06:41:48 AM
post Tesla coil amplitude dies after one corona discharge.
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Simranjit
May 08, 2024, 05:42:07 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
May 07, 2024, 06:46:16 PM
post What capacitor configuration to explode foil?
[Capacitor Banks]
FPS
May 07, 2024, 03:51:32 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
alan sailer
May 07, 2024, 03:20:23 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
NyaaX_X
May 07, 2024, 11:00:00 AM
post Aluminum electrolytic capacitor ripple current issue
[Beginners]
NyaaX_X
May 07, 2024, 06:07:48 AM
post Re: 3D printed mini-slayer: world's weakest tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
May 06, 2024, 04:43:19 PM
post Re: 3D printed mini-slayer: world's weakest tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
May 06, 2024, 04:26:44 PM
post Re: Feedback core for Tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
May 06, 2024, 04:24:57 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
Anders Mikkelsen
May 06, 2024, 04:20:37 PM
post Feedback core for Tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Simranjit
May 06, 2024, 04:28:59 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
May 06, 2024, 02:57:19 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
alan sailer
May 06, 2024, 02:07:38 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
May 05, 2024, 11:29:46 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
alan sailer
May 05, 2024, 10:27:01 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
May 05, 2024, 10:10:11 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
May 05, 2024, 08:06:11 PM
post Re: Ferrite material for GDT SSTC/DRSSTC
[General Chat]
alan sailer
May 05, 2024, 04:28:35 PM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
May 05, 2024, 06:31:32 AM
post Re: Big Coil Build Log
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
May 05, 2024, 05:48:43 AM
post Re: Ferrite material for GDT SSTC/DRSSTC
[General Chat]
thedark
May 05, 2024, 04:49:39 AM
post Re: Ferrite material for GDT SSTC/DRSSTC
[General Chat]
thedark
May 05, 2024, 04:28:40 AM
post Re: Ferrite material for GDT SSTC/DRSSTC
[General Chat]
davekni
May 05, 2024, 03:05:44 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
May 05, 2024, 02:54:42 AM
post Ferrite material for GDT SSTC/DRSSTC
[General Chat]
thedark
May 05, 2024, 02:21:54 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
May 05, 2024, 01:46:25 AM
post Re: TVS diode vs RCD snubber for protect IGBT peak voltage
[General Chat]
davekni
May 05, 2024, 12:26:38 AM
post Re: TVS diode vs RCD snubber for protect IGBT peak voltage
[General Chat]
thedark
May 04, 2024, 10:48:10 PM
post Re: TVS diode vs RCD snubber for protect IGBT peak voltage
[General Chat]
klugesmith
May 04, 2024, 10:40:15 PM
post TVS diode vs RCD snubber for protect IGBT peak voltage
[General Chat]
thedark
May 04, 2024, 09:30:32 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
May 04, 2024, 08:56:27 PM
post Re: Big Coil Build Log
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
May 04, 2024, 04:25:00 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
May 04, 2024, 04:21:02 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
May 04, 2024, 01:33:40 AM
post Re: Big Coil Build Log
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
May 04, 2024, 01:02:48 AM
post Re: Big Coil Build Log
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
May 03, 2024, 11:39:10 PM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
May 03, 2024, 10:59:34 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
markus
May 03, 2024, 09:59:22 AM
post What happened to ArcAttack?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
rusirius
May 03, 2024, 02:34:36 AM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
May 02, 2024, 05:18:56 AM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
dante
May 01, 2024, 10:06:40 PM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
dante
May 01, 2024, 10:01:33 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
May 01, 2024, 07:26:03 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
May 01, 2024, 05:53:47 PM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
alan sailer
May 01, 2024, 04:05:23 PM
post Re: X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
alan sailer
May 01, 2024, 03:58:29 PM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
klugesmith
May 01, 2024, 12:00:01 PM
post Re: X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
klugesmith
May 01, 2024, 11:45:53 AM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
dante
May 01, 2024, 10:29:48 AM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
markus
May 01, 2024, 09:46:43 AM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
May 01, 2024, 09:09:57 AM
post Re: Hobby site
[Hobby Sites]
Bart M
May 01, 2024, 08:15:07 AM
post Re: X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
May 01, 2024, 04:44:58 AM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
petespaco
May 01, 2024, 04:38:56 AM
post Re: X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
alan sailer
May 01, 2024, 02:41:56 AM
post Re: X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
May 01, 2024, 01:07:46 AM
post Re: X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
Twospoons
May 01, 2024, 12:43:46 AM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
alan sailer
May 01, 2024, 12:35:48 AM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
dante
April 30, 2024, 11:02:33 PM
post Recommendation for HV DC power supply
[General Chat]
dante
April 30, 2024, 11:00:48 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 30, 2024, 11:00:12 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
April 30, 2024, 10:51:05 PM
post X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 30, 2024, 10:46:46 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 30, 2024, 08:46:32 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 30, 2024, 07:28:52 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
April 30, 2024, 07:16:09 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal