Author Topic: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress  (Read 1640 times)

Offline Benjamin Lockhart

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Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« on: September 10, 2023, 10:25:28 PM »
Hey guys,
I'm really excited I just got my big DRSSTC oscillating under feedback


It uses a Phillip Slawinski UD+
0.365 uF MMC
8 inch secondary coil
about 50kHz secondary fres
CM300 fullbridge

I am  trying to set the phase lead in the driver now. I can just make out some spikes on the igbt collector-emitter signal but barely.
This is one low side IGBT, and the primary current. The bus voltage is about 120V dc, the primary current rings up to around 225A. 150us on time.
And yes this is a different scope than in the picture above.

With a slight dummy load sitting on the coil.


without the dummy load the first spike goes down a bit.


zoomed in, the spikes pretty much disappear, also some wrong triggering I couldn't get rid of.


Two different phase lead settings with the dummy load.



What do you think about these waveforms?
Thanks, Benjamin
« Last Edit: September 14, 2023, 06:55:24 AM by Benjamin Lockhart »

Offline davekni

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2023, 01:14:49 AM »
Quote
I'm having a bit of trouble getting my analog scope to trigger cleanly to set the phase lead in the driver. I can just make out some spikes on the igbt collector-emitter signal but barely.
First simple step is to set trigger holdoff long enough to avoid multiple triggers within one enable pulse (one burst of oscillation).
Second, I'd try triggering on the current feedback signal (signal across 51 ohm burden resistor presuming input looks like UD2.7).  Or if you have a another CT output for scoping, use that.  Then hopefully you can trigger reliably on the first cycle that exceeds whatever current threshold you set.
Third, if your analog scope is fancy enough, use delayed trigger mode.  Set main trigger mode for current, with delay mode to enable trigger on H-bridge output.  That should clean up much of the jitter remaining with a simple current trigger.  (Or set both main and delayed trigger to H-bridge output, using delay to wait for current to build to desired level for checking phase lead.)

Good luck with your build!

Edit:  Saw above edit after posting.  Spikes near the beginning of a burst are normal, at least for UD2.7.  Phase lead does not work properly until current builds some.  Not as important early either since switching current is low.

Final scope capture definitely looks cleanest.

Are you using chop or alternate mode?  The disappearing spikes look more like an artifact of alternate mode, with trigger capturing first part of a burst when scoping current and a later part when scoping H-bridge output.  I'd suggest using chop mode.  Sufficient trigger hold-off should also fix that issue.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 01:22:01 AM by davekni »
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Offline Benjamin Lockhart

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2023, 04:46:35 AM »
Thanks, triggering from the primary current CT with DC coupling, and playing with holdoff helped a lot.
Alt vs chop didn't seem to matter very much.
Also fine tuning the startup oscillator got rid of the first spike completely! it's only set for one cycle right now and that seems to work fine.

Unfortunately I can only run the bridge up to 130V DC with isolation so I can scope it. I have 45V step down transformer.

Any tips before I set up for first light testing?

Thanks, Benjamin
« Last Edit: September 11, 2023, 04:48:58 AM by Benjamin Lockhart »

Offline davekni

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2023, 05:28:09 AM »
Quote
Alt vs chop didn't seem to matter very much.
In most cases alt vs chop does not matter, especially with holdoff set correctly to get one trigger per burst.  However, occasionally alternate can produce seemingly-impossible captures, as in the earlier capture labeled:
"zoomed in, the spikes pretty much disappear, also some wrong triggering I couldn't get rid of."
Even ignoring the jitter, that capture appears to show current continuing to increase each cycle while H-bridge output has stopped.  That is not a real situation.  Capture of current was by chance occurring first while still increasing, followed by capture of H-bridge output voltage later as it ended.
For that reason I almost always avoided alt mode.  Used it only occasionally, when signal being scoped was close to chop frequency, which caused artifacts.  Even then I'd switch back and forth to make sure I wasn't getting a false display due to alternate mode.

Quote
Any tips before I set up for first light testing?
Key advice is test at low duty cycle.  Minimizes chances of hard failures if you find issues.

If your H-bridge Vbus supply is a voltage doubler from line, it may be possible to scope.  Make neutral center of doubler caps.  Connect scope probe through a capacitor (0.1uF or so) to neutral or Vbus-.  Neutral should be close to ground potential, with some ripple due to line power wire IR drop.  Capacitor provides high-frequency coupling to scope ground.  H-bridge outputs should be reasonable to view in spite of that bit of ripple.
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Offline Benjamin Lockhart

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2023, 06:02:59 AM »
Interesting, the supply is a doubler. I don't have a 100:1 probe though. I'm not sure if I can run it off 120V AC and use a 10:1 probe on the bridge.

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2023, 12:17:34 PM »
Quote
Any tips before I set up for first light testing?
Key advice is test at low duty cycle.  Minimizes chances of hard failures if you find issues.

Keep DCbus above 100 VDC to avoid excessive transient ratio from IGBT output capacitance. Low voltage testing like 50VDC can fool you to think there is very large switching spikes, as the spike from the output capacitance is the same at 50VDCbus as 500VDCbus, it will look 10 times worse at the low voltage.

Keep BPS at 100BPS'ish and duty cycle low. If you also use low BPS, you can get weird intermittent errors, where the driver is not getting enough feedback.
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Offline davekni

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2023, 05:46:33 AM »
Quote
Interesting, the supply is a doubler. I don't have a 100:1 probe though. I'm not sure if I can run it off 120V AC and use a 10:1 probe on the bridge.
Depends on voltage rating of your 10x probe.  Many are good to 600V.  Voltage rating does decrease as frequency increases.  At low duty cycle, frequency derating of probe is less important.
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Offline Benjamin Lockhart

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2023, 07:44:25 PM »
Well I seem to have blown the driver.

The 24V input reads like there is a diode across it, and it's shorting the 24V psu.
I don't know why, perhaps a line filter going into the psu might have helped?

The only things I can think of are that I didn't use distilled water, just clean well water, in the primary cooling loop, so maybe some voltage made it's way into the 120V line through the pump, and somehow through the 24 psu and killed something in the driver?
Or maybe voltage on the ground?

All grounds are tied together, to mains ground, and a 10 foot ground rod.

It was making some small output, 8 inches or so at 140V AC input, but I think that's because I had the OCD set at around 300A. it was skipping a lot of pulses and acting kind of erratic.
It was in tune though, the scope confirmed this because the primary current was notching.

I'd appreciate any advice you have.

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2023, 08:06:04 PM »
The only things I can think of are that I didn't use distilled water, just clean well water, in the primary cooling loop, so maybe some voltage made it's way into the 120V line through the pump, and somehow through the 24 psu and killed something in the driver?

Even tap water will not carry any real current at those hose lengths. Steve Ward wrote many years ago that even distilled water is useless and he just used tap water. After a few hours of using distilled water, it has been contaminated by surrounding, ion movement from electrolysis etc.
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Offline Benjamin Lockhart

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2023, 10:15:20 PM »
Ok, thanks. I need to do some testing on the driver to find out exactly what's wrong.
Could the grounding have something to do with it?

Offline davekni

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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2023, 06:13:53 AM »
Quote
Ok, thanks. I need to do some testing on the driver to find out exactly what's wrong.
Could the grounding have something to do with it?
Any chance the PSU got confused and generated more than 24V?  Yes, will help to see what's wrong with driver.

AstRii just posted about his experience with FPGA resetting during ground strike rail hits when driver is grounded:
    https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=2585.msg19148#msg19148
However, I always ground everything and haven't had such an issue.

Is your driver grounded well to it's shield box?  Looks like so in your picture.

Other than PSU over-voltage, only other thought that comes to mind is driver FPGA getting confused and generating high frequency output that overheated output FETs or driver chips due to rapid switching.
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Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2023, 06:13:53 AM »

 


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