Author Topic: DRSSTC primary won't oscillate at correct frequency  (Read 577 times)

Offline TMaxElectronics

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
    • My random (and very empty) electronics blog
DRSSTC primary won't oscillate at correct frequency
« on: June 29, 2023, 04:43:37 PM »
So after fixing the issue of the IGBTs blowing up I put the small coil together last week but for the life of me can't make it work... I've tuned it a couple of times to different frequencies but can never get it to oscillate correctly.

Coil parameters:
Primary cap 100nF
Primary inner diameter 140mm
Primary winding pitch 18mm
Primary winding count 5.3 (tried anything between 5 and 6)

Secondary length 350mm
Secondary wire diameter ~0.22mm
Secondary Winding count 1495

Toroid tube diameter 120mm
Toroid outer diameter 420mm

I'm also running a very sharp breakout on top of the toroid

Without the secondary in place it oscillates at 186kHz (which is a tiny bit under the 187kHz fres of the secondary). but as soon as I put the secondary with the topload into the primary the frequency shifts to 200khz. If I then tune it lower it starts oscillating at around 170khz. It almost seems like it actively avoids resonating at the secondary frequency...

Here's the plot of the UD3's tune sweep (fixed frequency, ~40V on the bus. Current is on the y axis with a peak of ~100A, frequency on the x in kHz) with the secondary in place:


And this is how it looks without and secondary resonator:


Seems extremely weird to me that the coil would pull so much energy out of the primary tank circuit that it wouldn't even oscillate at all at the right frequency.

Coupling is adjusted to ~11%, and I've tried lowering that even further without any luck. Trying to run it outside (with adjusted tap point, and better earth) also didn't make a difference. Earthing is done to the water main in the basement and directly into the ground next to the coil for the test outside.

Driver is a UD3, adjusted so the start oscillator runs for the first few cycles until feedback current exceeds 25A.

Has anybody seen such behaviour befor or has any idea what might be going on?

ADDITION:
I just tried two more things. One is to increase the cupling to perhaps 20%, still no change. Other is to try and fix frequency excite the primary, so I turned off the start cycle limiter and up the minimum feedback current with ~50V on the bus and the coil behaved extremely oddly:

Yellow is voltage induced into a loop of wire underneath the primary, sort of indicating current. Oddly enough it actually drops off and completely stops oscillating at all.

And another addition:
i tried tuning the coil much lower again, which at some point does result in some small streamers, but only around 30cm even at 800us ontime... definetely not the performance I'm expecting from a coil this size :/
« Last Edit: June 29, 2023, 10:51:01 PM by TMaxElectronics »

Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • Executive Board Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2243
  • Karma: +70/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: DRSSTC primary won't oscillate at correct frequency
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2023, 06:05:35 PM »
I assume that you checked phasing in all the places it could be reversed.

What about your MMC/resonant capacitor, does it check out good when under load? Could be that it behaves fine when just sitting, but does weird stuff when loaded with current or at high voltages.

Did you try a 10K power resistor across the inverter output, to drain any residual charge between pulses?
https://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline coilerer

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: DRSSTC primary won't oscillate at correct frequency
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2023, 06:19:12 PM »
I'm pretty new to this stuff, but could it be that the driver is jumping to the upper pole in case 1 and the lower pole in case two (when you lower f_res of the primary)? Not sure why you aren't getting streamers though. Maybe flip the primary leads?

Case 1 - "but as soon as I put the secondary with the topload into the primary the frequency shifts to 200khz."

Case2 -  "If I then tune it lower it starts oscillating at around 170khz. It almost seems like it actively avoids resonating at the secondary frequency..."

High Voltage Forum

Re: DRSSTC primary won't oscillate at correct frequency
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2023, 06:19:12 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
Today at 12:53:22 AM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 21, 2024, 11:37:47 PM
post Re: ESAB Bantam TBH 140 Welder Restoration
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
rikkitikkitavi
February 21, 2024, 10:58:53 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
February 21, 2024, 09:13:05 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 21, 2024, 09:04:11 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
February 21, 2024, 08:53:07 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 21, 2024, 07:48:47 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
February 21, 2024, 07:28:29 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 21, 2024, 06:58:39 PM
post LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
February 21, 2024, 02:31:59 PM
post UD2.7 Thru Hole Capacitor Selection
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
February 21, 2024, 02:30:10 PM
post Re: DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
PhotonLab
February 20, 2024, 03:14:58 PM
post Re: DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
alan sailer
February 19, 2024, 06:08:05 PM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
February 19, 2024, 03:03:37 PM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
AstRii
February 19, 2024, 04:34:22 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
February 19, 2024, 04:27:28 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
AstRii
February 19, 2024, 03:59:51 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
February 19, 2024, 03:45:51 AM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 19, 2024, 03:30:09 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
AstRii
February 19, 2024, 02:38:49 AM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
February 19, 2024, 01:52:20 AM
post Re: Lathe Restauration
[General Chat]
TMaxElectronics
February 19, 2024, 12:47:27 AM
post Re: VS-GP250SA60S IGBT suitability - no flywheel diode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 18, 2024, 10:32:36 PM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 18, 2024, 10:06:58 PM
post Re: VS-GP250SA60S IGBT suitability - no flywheel diode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
February 18, 2024, 11:43:44 AM
post Re: VS-GP250SA60S IGBT suitability - no flywheel diode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Keybored
February 18, 2024, 03:41:12 AM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
February 18, 2024, 02:43:37 AM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 17, 2024, 10:45:17 PM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
February 17, 2024, 10:29:30 PM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 17, 2024, 10:20:39 PM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 17, 2024, 10:14:20 PM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 17, 2024, 08:56:42 PM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 17, 2024, 08:52:45 PM
post Re: DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
PhotonLab
February 16, 2024, 09:20:44 AM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 16, 2024, 03:50:58 AM
post Re: Ramped DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
February 16, 2024, 03:27:18 AM
post Re: DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
klugesmith
February 16, 2024, 01:55:48 AM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 15, 2024, 07:11:20 PM
post Re: DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
PhotonLab
February 15, 2024, 11:31:42 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
February 15, 2024, 06:01:49 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
AstRii
February 15, 2024, 05:13:13 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
February 15, 2024, 04:26:00 AM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 14, 2024, 06:25:45 PM
post Re: DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
Luca c.
February 14, 2024, 03:33:25 PM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
AstRii
February 14, 2024, 12:57:01 PM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 14, 2024, 05:32:30 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
February 14, 2024, 05:22:35 AM
post Re: VS-GP250SA60S IGBT suitability - no flywheel diode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
AstRii
February 14, 2024, 04:34:14 AM
post Re: VS-GP250SA60S IGBT suitability - no flywheel diode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Keybored
February 14, 2024, 03:02:16 AM
post Re: RDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
February 14, 2024, 01:58:17 AM
post Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
AstRii
February 13, 2024, 09:30:40 PM
post DIY X-RAY generator made of eBay parts
[X-ray]
PhotonLab
February 13, 2024, 03:54:23 PM
post VS-GP250SA60S IGBT suitability - no flywheel diode
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Keybored
February 13, 2024, 09:57:12 AM
post Re: TNY265 flyback issue
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
February 13, 2024, 03:50:05 AM
post Re: TNY265 flyback issue
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
AstRii
February 12, 2024, 07:30:42 PM
post Re: PLL "IHFSSTC" concept and schematic
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
February 11, 2024, 10:30:38 PM
post Re: Help finding correct IGBT Module
[General Chat]
rikkitikkitavi
February 11, 2024, 09:41:57 PM
post Re: PLL "IHFSSTC" concept and schematic
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lucasww
February 11, 2024, 06:34:35 AM
post Re: TNY265 flyback issue
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
February 10, 2024, 03:55:35 AM
post Help finding correct IGBT Module
[General Chat]
cnichols
February 09, 2024, 09:34:13 PM
post TNY265 flyback issue
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
AstRii
February 09, 2024, 06:45:46 PM
post Re: Help Sourcing or Debugging My Small HV Module
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
michaelrcolton
February 08, 2024, 07:04:07 PM
post ESAB Bantam TBH 140 Welder Restoration
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
Mads Barnkob
February 08, 2024, 06:47:35 PM
post Re: Anyone used iCCFL.com?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
FPS
February 08, 2024, 12:27:47 AM
post Re: PLL "IHFSSTC" concept and schematic
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
February 07, 2024, 09:49:11 PM
post Re: Anyone know of a good variable driver?
[Beginners]
NyaaX_X
February 07, 2024, 04:48:02 PM
post Re: Anyone know of a good variable driver?
[Beginners]
FPS
February 07, 2024, 08:17:37 AM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Terry
February 06, 2024, 10:51:35 PM
post Re: OCXO Reference devolopment - or a story about scaleability
[Radio Frequency]
Mads Barnkob
February 06, 2024, 07:29:29 PM
post Re: Anyone used iCCFL.com?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
MRMILSTAR
February 05, 2024, 05:18:33 AM
post Re: Anyone know of a good variable driver?
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
February 04, 2024, 09:16:25 PM
post Re: PLL "IHFSSTC" concept and schematic
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
February 04, 2024, 09:13:36 PM
post Anyone used iCCFL.com?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
FPS
February 04, 2024, 09:00:30 PM
post Re: Anyone know of a good variable driver?
[Beginners]
FPS
February 04, 2024, 08:56:14 PM
post Re: OCXO Reference devolopment - or a story about scaleability
[Radio Frequency]
Da_Stier
February 04, 2024, 08:18:01 PM
post Re: Anyone know of a good variable driver?
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
February 04, 2024, 08:04:36 PM
post OCXO Reference devolopment - or a story about scaleability
[Radio Frequency]
Da_Stier
February 04, 2024, 07:56:55 PM
post Re: PLL "IHFSSTC" concept and schematic
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Lucasww
February 04, 2024, 08:45:53 AM
post Anyone know of a good variable driver?
[Beginners]
FPS
February 04, 2024, 12:56:52 AM
post Re: looking for a pll sstc schematic with gate driver ic.
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
yourboi
February 03, 2024, 07:01:12 PM
post Re: SSTC bus inductance
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
February 03, 2024, 08:04:29 AM
post Re: SSTC bus inductance
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
February 03, 2024, 06:01:12 AM
post Re: is there a standard pinout of optical audio output connectors?
[Electronic Circuits]
Rafft
February 02, 2024, 05:04:44 PM
post SSTC bus inductance
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
February 02, 2024, 08:34:56 AM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
klugesmith
February 01, 2024, 07:03:41 PM
post Does anyone have a 3d print form for a spiral primary on 4" pvc?
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
yourboi
February 01, 2024, 06:23:45 PM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Mads Barnkob
February 01, 2024, 07:53:53 AM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
klugesmith
January 31, 2024, 11:43:32 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Ranni81
January 31, 2024, 08:03:40 PM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Hysteresis
January 31, 2024, 03:34:48 PM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
January 31, 2024, 05:08:10 AM
post Re: How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Mads Barnkob
January 30, 2024, 10:17:45 PM
post How much power?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Terry
January 30, 2024, 08:07:39 PM
post Ultrasonic Plastic Welding experiments with TA-40CS transducer
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
January 28, 2024, 11:37:30 PM
post Re: is there a standard pinout of optical audio output connectors?
[Electronic Circuits]
yourboi
January 28, 2024, 03:07:12 AM
post Re: First time DRSSTC Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
January 27, 2024, 02:27:29 PM
post Re: Lathe Restauration
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
January 27, 2024, 01:26:34 PM
post Re: Determine output voltage of DRSSTC
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
January 27, 2024, 01:15:51 PM
post Re: is there a standard pinout of optical audio output connectors?
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
January 27, 2024, 01:13:29 PM
post Determine output voltage of DRSSTC
[General Chat]
Pavol
January 27, 2024, 11:35:35 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal