Author Topic: Counterfit Parts  (Read 404 times)

Offline alan sailer

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Counterfit Parts
« on: July 07, 2021, 03:59:08 AM »
A friend of mine is also interested in electronics and really enjoys getting a deal. He wanted some IRFP260 devices
for a project and bought some at a great price off Ebay. From China. Two sets from different vendors.

He suspected that the parts were not right and gave them to me to get X-rayed at work. The machine was down
so he had to wait.

A few days ago I looked up how to dissolve the epoxy casing on chips and it sounded fun. Concentrated sulfuric acid at 200C.

Today I got done with the last device of three and the results were interesting.

The real IRFP260 from a real vendor measured 5.1nF. The die was 58500mils^2. (that's thousandths of an inch square).

The first fake 260 was 1.3nF and 18000mils^2.

The second was 0.84nF and 9800mils^2.

The prices he paid were 0.8$, 1$ and 2.50$. So even the lower priced parts were not a deal percentage wise.

To first order the capacitance and the die area tracks nicely. Another feature was the heat-sink. The fake parts had metal
that was much thinner and smaller in area. Although all three metal tabs were copper.

I know that fake parts is not a new concept around these forums. But it was still sort of interesting to see haw really bad
it can get. I can only hope none of this crap ends up in anything important.

I also find it depressing that people are actually spending time and ingenuity making and selling such sad scrap. It makes
me glad that my career was on the up and up. I never lied to ship a part.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 04:02:59 AM by alan sailer »

Offline MRMILSTAR

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Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2021, 05:21:54 AM »
I've reached the point where I won't buy any active electronic devices from China. there are just way too many fakes. The ones that I have had success with are high voltage diodes but that's as far as I will go. Any sort of transistors I will only buy from US suppliers.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 10:39:13 PM by MRMILSTAR »
Steve White
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Retired electrical engineer

Offline futurist

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Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2021, 08:05:55 PM »
I had similar experience when I bought a bunch of 40N60 TO-247 IGBTs off ebay from china
I dissolved epoxy in conc. nitric acid, and revealed die was significantly different from genuine 40N60 which I got from Hydron, if I remember correctly they were ordered from farnell

I have photos somewhere, I'll post them if I find them. Did you make x-ray photos of the parts? It's much more convenient than decapping silicon with acid

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2021, 09:23:06 PM »
Hydron wrote about buying 75N60's a while ago: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=193.0
https://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline oneKone

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Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2021, 12:00:16 AM »
Unfortunately TO-247 are imo the most faked components in this hobby. I think I've ordered from 20+ vendors in hoping to find one that actually works. Eventually I gave up and started ordering bricks/igbt modules, I have seen fakes but they're obvious with the lower price attached to them.

Offline alan sailer

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Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2021, 02:34:38 AM »
futurist,

I would have loved to do x-rays but the machine at work was broken. I basically did the acid because I was interested in getting the data.

Once again, this is not news to experienced people on this forum. It was just kind of fun for me.

On a side note I did buy some SKM100 form a Chinese source for my last project. They apparently work just fine. I'm not stressing them in
voltage but the current is 5.5X the maximum spec.

Cheers.

A side note: this post would not load until I tried again.

Offline Hydron

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Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2021, 01:28:26 PM »
As mentioned in my post on aliexpress FGY75N60s, I think I was at a large advantage due to the fact that the IGBTs were one of the cheaper parts available in "Power TO247" packages in the first place, reducing the options for faking them by re-labelling the cheapest thing they could find (though it doesn't stop other methods of cheating, like making fake parts from scratch). That was also a few years back, situation could have changed significantly since.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Counterfit Parts
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2021, 01:28:26 PM »

 


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