Author Topic: 400 kv Marx which works, but which blows the differential circuit breaker.  (Read 1528 times)

Offline paulj

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It is built with 10 TDK 202K 40KV capacitors resistors designed for the high voltage of 910 k and a 20 kv 200w variable power supply for air purifiers.

I never exceeded 60% of its potential because I wanted a reliable product that wouldn't risk breaking down in the middle of a meeting.

But she has two problems:
- the variable power supply has a safety device in the event of an overload but it is triggered before the capacitors are fully charged.
here are the manufacturer's specs.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/high-voltage-power-supply-20KV-200w_1600156271718.html


-the second problem is more serious,
My 30 ma differential circuit breaker trips after 2 sparks and it happens that I get electrified with the control box. I may have made a mistake by connecting the negative high voltage output to the earth of the house, I wanted to respect the conditions of the manufacturer of the power supply which recommends to put the metal frame to the earth.
for me it seems obvious to me to protect electronic components from radio interference.

To put an end to this problem, I was thinking of creating a system that would disconnect the power from the marx generator before firing and use a high voltage electromechanical relay, or vacuum tube to trigger the generator and thus protect the power.

So if you have any suggestions, I'll take any answers.

thank you.

Ps: I haven't used electricity for a long time, so some basics of physics have jumped out of my memory.



Offline MRMILSTAR

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I ran into similar problems with my Marx generator. I destroyed a SMPS with it due to high voltage kickback. My solution was to use batteries as the power supply. This completely isolates the Marx generator from the house wiring. You don't want the Marx generator to have any possible path into your house wiring.

I used two 12 volt sealed lead acid batteries in series to yield a 24 volt power supply. This drives a ZVS circuit which is connected to a DC flyback transformer. The batteries are inexpensive and can be found on E-Bay and Amazon. They are used for many things such as electric kid's cars. The batteries will run the Marx generator for a long time before recharging is needed.
Steve White
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Retired electrical engineer

Offline davekni

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Quote
But she has two problems:
- the variable power supply has a safety device in the event of an overload but it is triggered before the capacitors are fully charged.
Do you have a 910k resistor between the supply and first Marx capacitor?  If so, 12kV / 910k is under the supply's 15mA output rating.  That would suggest an over-rated supply.  If no resistor to the first cap, then the charging current could exceed 15mA.

Quote
My 30 ma differential circuit breaker trips after 2 sparks and it happens that I get electrified with the control box. I may have made a mistake by connecting the negative high voltage output to the earth of the house, I wanted to respect the conditions of the manufacturer of the power supply which recommends to put the metal frame to the earth.
for me it seems obvious to me to protect electronic components from radio interference.
Yes, grounding the supply case is appropriate.  I presume that is also the ground of your Marx stack.  Are your control electronics also grounded?  If so, any shock is due to either ground wire inductance or capacitive coupling from the Marx top through your body to ground (to control box).

Marx generators make sudden high voltage and high current pulses which couple to everything around through stray capacitance and inductance.  GFI breakers are sensitive to such transients.  Two things may help.  One is a grounded counterpoise under your setup, tied to all the grounds, Marx, HV supply, and control electronics.  The other is a common-mode line filter or even two, one where the cord leaves the counterpoise and another near the GFI breaker.  (My large 440kV Marx generator has fried several LED bulbs and one radio in my garage due to proximity.)  As Steve said, batteries are also an option.
David Knierim

Offline paulj

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Thank you both for your answers.

To answer Steve:
Lead-acid batteries are a very good idea, plus I'm sure to protect the home network, after that it forces me to change my diet, but it will give me a good exercise.

To answer David:

Yes there is a 910k resistor between the power supply and the first capacitor.
My power supply is variable and is only used at 50% of its maximum power. otherwise, the first spark gap at the base will trigger on its own.
It is possible to disable security on two levels (two switches) but I do not want to take the risk.

No, my control electronics are isolated from the ground.
On the other hand, the negative output of the flyback transformer is connected to the earth by me, this was recommended by the manufacturer.
Yes my control box is connected to the ground, it's an electrical box with industrial contactor.


I have a big emi filter for computers, and a big steel plate, I can try to see if that fixes the problem.

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