Author Topic: How Much Propellant ...  (Read 1547 times)

Patrick

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How Much Propellant ...
« on: June 26, 2021, 09:20:17 AM »
I keep asking myself how much solid propellant it would take to send 2.2 lbs (1kg) into a low, dirty orbit?

 Just an estimate, like 1000 lbs or 50,000 lbs ? There is at least one high school / college person who wants to be the first student send a rocket payload into orbit. Not sure how much effort that is. Composite casing and primitive guidance I don't think are the limiting factors, so I think its more the volume of propellant and the method vectoring.

Offline Twospoons

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2021, 10:52:57 AM »
Composite casing and primitive guidance I don't think are the limiting factors,

No, getting permission to launch is going to be the biggest issue.

AFAIK any kind of active guidance on a rocket will bring you all sorts of unwelcome attention.  Governments don't like amateurs building missiles.

As for the weight of propellant - you have to choose your propellant first.  Obviously you'd want the highest ISP you can get.

How many stages? 2, 3, 4 ? Necessary because you want to shed dead weight as soo as possible, and  also  because you want to change nozzle as the altitude and pressure change.

Offline Mads Barnkob

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2021, 02:11:37 PM »
I think BPS.Space would be a good starting point, he spent a lot of years failing and has learned a lot. Its all documented well on his youtube channel. However, as Twospoons mention, guidance technology is not something you just make public, neither did BPS.Space. But he developed it all and explains well how it works.
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Offline plasma

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2021, 07:36:40 PM »
Its around 80-95% doesn't make, depending on a lot of things. Its 330 ISP to reach escape velocity, I'm guessing 280 ISP to get in a orbit.

Offline TMaxElectronics

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2021, 10:49:08 PM »
I actually wonder how easy it would be to get the guidance working with off the shelf parts nowadays... there are some mems IMUs available that at least when I tested them with my car were very accurate at least in terms of speed and rotation. And digikey even has some crazy expensive honeywell one in stock.
I'm guessing gps still works in low orbit since the satellites are in GSO anyway right? Then that could be used for the rough correction with the IMU (or perhaps multiple with the data being averaged) doing the fine stuff.

Offline Twospoons

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2021, 04:37:33 AM »
Last time I looked civilian GPS chipsets were velocity limited, precisely so that civilians can't easily make guided missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_solid-fuelled_orbital_launch_systems is a list of solid fueled orbital lifters - and provides an idea of the scale required. The smallest payload to LEO in that list is 4kg, and the launch vehicle weighs 2600kg.

So you are probably looking in the region of  1000-2000 kg to chuck a kg into LEO.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2021, 04:47:59 AM by Twospoons »

Patrick

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2021, 11:11:30 PM »

So you are probably looking in the region of  1000-2000 kg to chuck a kg into LEO.

So if launched horizontally from 30k ft how much of that first "oompf" could be reduced, since the equations a exponential ?

Ill continue to look at wiki and other sources...

update: this looks pretty good: https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/expeditions/expedition30/tryanny.html
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 12:33:16 AM by Patrick »

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Re: How Much Propellant ...
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2021, 11:11:30 PM »

 


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