Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - hightemp1

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
1
My sincere apologies to you Pete, and entire forum. Thank you for emphasizing safety first.  Thanks to this thread, I believe I now have the knowledge to proceed very cautiously building a 3kw MOT power supply. Any further questions would be in another thread or forum.  As always, thank you Pete, klugesmith and company for sharing your professional knowledge. Lots of great advice, excepting mine, gleaned from the masters.

PS -- I was of course dead wrong.  My 220v outlet is an old style Nema 10-50 having a neutral that also served as ground, assuming it was properly installed 60 years ago by whoever built the house.

2
Found this quote from internut so must be true.
220 does NOT need a neutral. Some newer appliances require it for parts of the system that run on 110 volts. Almost all installations more than a few years old do not have a neutral
Please read next two posts for the real deal...

I HAVE NO ELECTRICAL BACKGROUND SO PLEASE IGNORE WHATEVER I MAY BE THINKING !!!

3
Here in the good old USA.
Yea, almost every MOT array of more than two on the internet is with foreign 220V rated MOTs.  Seams to be more complex and dangerous using 120v mots on 220V.
I think, just an expression - I know for a fact my 220V outlet has no neutral :-)  WRONG
Commercial PS is definately the way to go.  This is just something I always wanted to do, and do not recommend even attempting unless you are an engineer, or have lots of time and mots on hand and can have it verified by electrical engineers.
5 good batteries would be hard to find or terribly expensive, but always a reliable alternative.
Rectification is not just simple bridge rectifier properly rated with smoothing cap?
Also, using Dan's welding design with variable SCR power control, gives more options with power input/output. Adding more MOTs is doable too.
Did Dan Hartman's 120V MOT primary array on 220V schematic on page 51 make sense to you.....?

4

* 240V center-tapped circuit, with 2 MOT's on each side (all four primaries having one end connected to neutral).


Pictures are what my thick skull needs and I finally found one but can not post due to copy-rights.  Maybe why using 120v mots with 220v is so uncommon is because the MOTs voltages need to be almost perfectly matched, not to mention this complex series/parallel array.  Unfortunately, my 220V does not have a neutral, just two hots and a ground, I think.(my 220v outlet does have a common neutral/ground wire.  So I will try to explain -- all four mots are connected in parallel, two on each hot leg with a series connection across the hot lines.  So I think voltages & amps would be approx. 50V & 60A on primary side?

If ok, now wondering how to wire the secondary to keep same VA power thinking is just tying all beginning primaries together and all ending primaries together?

UPDATE: My outlet is older style with a common neutral.

UPDATE: Here is a great example of the design I was looking for:
/>  & here is a great manual on mot welder design: http://docshare01.docshare.tips/files/25403/254039279.pdf

5
I was thinking that primaries could be in some kind of series/parallel combination to maintain 120V to each mot and full power to all of them?

Apparently not.  :'(  How about linking two seperate 220V lines together somehow? 

If no way, then this makes 120V mots much less useful than 220v mots since hooking maximun of 2 Mots to 220V seams to be the maximum?


If so then, how about using 4 mots on 120V mains in some sort o series/parallel combo with a dedictated 30 amp circuit?

6
I was thinking that primaries could be in some kind of series/parallel combination to maintain 120V to each mot and full power to all of them?

7
Odd that the only actual 4-array MOT low-voltage applications I could find were done with 220V mots.  Anyhow, I think I can get 27 winds of 8 gauge (four 12 gauge in parallel) through each mot.  So now have a question on the secondary wiring as well.  If I get 48 volts on each series wound primary leg can I wire the secondary in parallel to get more amps?  Anyone care to tackle any or all my many questions?

8
If the MOT's have 120 V primaries, two primaries in series can go on 220V power, but if it's split phase 240 as in North America, I'd recommend connecting both to the neutral wire at mid voltage - what is gained by letting the load circuit determine the voltage division?


 Thank you klugesmith - so each 120V leg of a 220V AC line would have 2 mots in series? How then would each of those 120V pairs be tied together?
Regardless of MOTs rating(120V or 220V), would output be the same - 50V@ 60A?

9
Quote
Hope we are not cluttering Pete's thread with this discussion.
I hope so too, am so slow - so sorry to waste everyone's time.  Will try to be as breif as I can.  Your specific example is good for uneducated like me.  For us in the states with 120V MOTs, could you please be even more specific on how to wire the 4 primaries? I understand and think all your other ideas are spot on - thank you!

If I understand, each primary leg of 220V line gets 120V, and with 2 MOTs in series on each leg, from our previous example, output/leg would be 25V@ 80amps, assuming 1kw/mot?? If so, then 4 series connected secondaries would get 50V @ 80A.

10
Quote
Assumption:  {I have 4 same size MOTs rated @ 1KW and can get 25 turns of 8 gauge wire on each MOT & get 1 Watt per Turn}

I suspect you mean one VOLT per turn, not one watt.
Do you KNOW this or are you estimating?     In my own tests, I have been getting about 0.7 volts per turn.

Just an estimate though based on other youtube videos the larger MOTs usaully get about 1V per turn.  Thanks for correcting - I need some more of that.  Still struggling with how best to wire 4 same size larger MOTs to get somewhere close to 3KW @ approximately 50 volts on a 220V outlet?

11
For 120 volt input, I've often wondered about the possibility of wiring the primaries in series and the secondaries in series for two 120 volt MOTs. The result would be essentially like a NST with a center-tapped secondary. The input voltage and output voltage of the combined MOTs would be the same as a single MOT. Each MOT would have 60 volts on the primary. The possible advantage would be that the cores would not be in saturation and they would act more closely like a proper transformer.

Sounds great!   If I understand correctly series wiring of MOTs with 120 volts seams to remove some of the innate MOT inefficiences due to MOT design (less copper/alum. in primary windings).

Assumption:  {I have 4 same size MOTs rated @ 1KW and can get 25 turns of 8 gauge wire on each MOT & get 1 Watt Volt per Turn}

If I wire each pair in series, then wire the series pair in parallel would I then get 50V output using 220V mains outlet.
And if I use the same wiring on the output, ignoring inefficiencies for the moment, what would be the AMPERAGE output?
Or alternatively, if the output is all wired in series, what would be the amperage output?
And, of course, is it practical to wire in above configurations?  If not, what would be the best way to wire 4 MOTs to get approx. a 3KW (55v@55amps) power supply? ???
 :(

12
Dan Hartman used an array of 8 large MOTs connected to a 240V 50amp circuit; and, illustrates his recommended way of hooking up anywhere from 2 to 12 transformers for welder use. He advises against rewiring with magnetic wire for higher amp welders due to diffculty of wiring 6-10 guage, also said sourcing 6-8g was difficult or impossible. (regular wire is fine for high amp/short burst stuff like spot welders but not high duty cycle apps cause you basically lose half your Watts -best to use magnetic wire so you get full power out of MOT).  As Pete has pointed out, Power Supplies for ZVS have different requirements than welders.  Higher voltages are better for ZVS and huge amperages used by welders not so important.  My unique application here requires a PS cable of 60V @ 60A with a continuous run time of 30 minute.  I know this DIY stuff can just be seat of the pants guess work but I am still questioning  - What would your MOT array look like to meet above requirments??

I know some of you have opined on this already so if you prefer ignore.  I just have a mental block on figuring out the best wiring configuration for a more robust 60v@60a Mot PS. Maybe, assuming 20 turns of 8 gauge regular stranded building insulated wire on each MOT, then would 4 MOTs in some kind of series/parallel combo possibly work?  Also just noticed that for welders Dan connects the primaries in parallel and the secondaries in series.  That seems to be just the opposite what we are advocating here for a Mot ZVS power supply?

UPDATE: In video link above the guy has a whole video series on rewinding MOTS.  For Continuous Use he recommends like Pete to not use thick insulated wire but magnetic wire for getting higher duty cycle.  Good tip, again like Pete said, is to wrap two or more lesser gauge wire in parallel.  Problem with ordinary household wire is over 50% of its area is damn insulation.
/>





13
Taking a break from the MOT 3.5KW(60v/60a) power supply design.  Everyone seems to have different ideas, and a best design is a just a clusterfuch to me. 

On ZVS design, found this good simple intro video for nobs like myself.
/>
PS. Pete, his video uploads your modified schematic from your website of the 1kw ZVS heater - immitation is most sincere form of flattery.

14
Quote
I would say twice the size. All MO are made in China. All MOTs are made in China. I really doubt they would spend a single won extra on copper or magnetic steel than necessary, considering you blast your MOT at full power not more than a few minutes and the heat loss is absorbed by the thermal capacity.

They spend extremely little on copper.  All the MOTs that I have are wound with aluminum wire.

I have unwound two mot transformers - both had aluminum secondaries and copper primaries.  The MOs that I find have had:  burnt out magnetrons, burnt out switches, burnt stirrer motors, or are were just tossed because inside paint pealed or MO was just too greasy.   Do not believe I have ever found one with burnt transformer windings.

UPDATE: Just checked 5 of my MOTS & two have copper primaries and four have aluminum primaries.  Depending on size copper MOTS weigh 1-2lbs. more and have smaller gauge wire 15-16 vs 12-14 for alum.  Did not check secondary metal.

15
Yes, sorry everyone, all this rewiring is really Greek to me so basically ignore anything that I blurt out - please forgive my ignorance.   :-[

To me it is just not clear how to best re-wire same rated MOTs to get a +3kw PS with, say a 60 volt 60 amp rating, and a duty cycle allowing 1/2 hour runs for melting metal.  :-\

My pea brain assimulates comments and thinks  3 or 4 Mots with series primaries & cooled, might work but really no clue.

Update: another suggestion - runing two as Pete recommends and having a third wired so it can be added in series, when Power falls at melting temps; or just runing 6 in a some even more confusing 3x3 parallel/series combo?


16
Great idea.  V.2.0 could make a fortune.  8)
See through acrylic is always facinatiing.
Maybe a trigger hold/release button.
Some flashy LEDs and/or Laser Rays
Ray Gun sound effects, and/or
Nuclear Reactor Core sound effects.
"The Heater" or the "Mini Nut Buster"
Ok, I quit.  ::)

17
Well, I have a 1000W EI transformer core (actually it is an old autotransformer 220/127V from the time we had 127V in Sweden) and it is substantially larger than any MOT I have seen on video, US /EU/JP/UK/wherever

I would say twice the size. All MO are made in China. All MOTs are made in China. I really doubt they would spend a single won extra on copper or magnetic steel than necessary, considering you blast your MOT at full power not more than a few minutes and the heat loss is absorbed by the thermal capacity.
When you operate your oven at longer periods it is with reduced power, it is run with low frequencye PWM (like 1 sec on/ 1 sec off)

At my office we have a couple of MO in the pentry, and during lunch hour they blast away constantly as each individual trying to heat the lunch box and soon the smell of food is mixed with that good ol´overheated Xformer core insulation smell. They are frequently replaced due to breakdowns  but finally the house maintainence crew have found some good brand tht last longer than usual. And now in Corona times everyone is working from home so...

My point is that an EU transformer ACTUAL rating is close to 500W, but not officially so. There is no rating on these. The nameplate says something like the magnetrone power output and perhaps something about minimum current drawn from wall socket.

You have to investigate this by perhaps doing the primary resistance evaluation. I would expect an US MOT to have some margin due to the less demanding requirments of lower primary voltage and higher frequnecy or, if the manufacturer have reaaaally done it dirt cheap it has the same flux density as an EU MOT. And hence they capaity is larger.
 
A power supply for an induction heater needs to be able to deliver full power for atleast an hour.
A home made welding xformer have a very low duty, unless you are an experienced welder who can just lay down fillet after fillet successfully
But eventually you stick one pin to much or something like that and wham the magic smoke is gone and you test your circuit breakers...

Ok, so you are saying that even though the MO may be pulling over 1kw intermitantly, the duty cycle for an induction furnace should be 100%, so one would need six or more MOTs in series for correct duty cycle?  Not sure I would need 100% duty cycle though?  Due to cost of graphite, I would not want a melt to last longer than 1/2 an hour. so maybe I can get by with only a 55% duty cycle or 4 MOTs in series?  Just call me slowhand.  Aggressive air cooling would help.  Though another potential problem is cost - pulling 60 amps requires maybe 6 guage wire and wiring 4 MOTs with that would not be cheap?  Suddenly, the cheap MOT idea may not be so cheap anymore - help??

Other minor tweeks I've read are:
1.leave the shunts in or out - see it done both ways, or even using wood shunts - which is best?
https://theeducationalblog.quora.com/Repurposing-rewinding-a-microwave-oven-transformer
2.lengthen the primary wire for increased stability - trade-off power reduced?
3 a. magnetic wire for more power -though more prone to damage while wiring
3 b. thicker insulated welding type wire for less power but easier to work with.
4. E type MOTs can be cut open for easier bobbin installs, otherwise rewind old fashion way

18
I am not sure about US MOTs with 120V primary, but our here in EU are very cheaply wound and therefore they are well into saturation with a magnetising current in the amps range causing high idle losses. Judging from size I would say they are rated at about 3-400W at 100% duty.

My advice would be to use atleast three in series for 220V supply.

Also measure the primary resistance. Calculate the actual primary current that would lead to 5% losses (0,05*U primary *I primary = I primary^2 *Rprimary) and then you get a ball park figure about the actual 100% duty rating.

Also, as they are designed for high leakage with a magnetic shunt they have a lot of voltage drop when loaded. This helps stabilise output voltage though when you add enough capacitance as the leakage inducatnce and rectifiying caps form a LC filter. But the voltage will be load dependant.

MOTs are fairly easy to rewind though due to a large winding window, and with the windings separated not concentric but side by side in a split bobin. I have never successfully opened an EI transformer core to rewind it and successfully reassembled it with the same efficiency ( idle current, low noise etc) but maybe it is a matter of just getting enough experience.

You guys know your stuff.  I could not find a single video of two or more 120v MOTs being used in series on 220V here in US, let alone three or more.   So I think knowing that 120v mots can be used with 220 is great (CORRECTION--matching 120v MOTs  to 120v wiring is necessary else 120v MOT's insulation may fry with 220v - two 120v MOTs can be used with 220v if their  primaries are wired in series so each MOT gets 120V). 
And, 30 amp 120v circuits are very rare in the states. Only use I could find, is people who plug their travel trailers up to their homes since many motor homes require 120v @ 30a.  So if one has to make another circuit it would seem logical to use the more common, more useful 220v circuit. 

Shocking that EU mots are rated at less than 500 watts.  The larger ones here in the states claim 1200+ watts, but an electrician who worked on microwaves once told me that most all these larger MOTs are all basically the same and only rated at 1kw.  He did not say what duty cycle that is - for me, I have never ran a micowave for more than 30 minutes. Come to think of it, my 1200W rated unit does possibly cycle power on and off -that sucks.   For 3kw or larger PS, I agree that three or more in series would be required.  Assuming 1kw per MOT is correct, then with losses from rewinding, it may take 4 to get  ++3kw, at an unknown duty cycle?  For melting larger quanties of metal in bigger crucibles a 50% or better duty cycle would be best (does 50/50 mean on half an hour then off half an hour)?
 
Again assuming that most of these larger MOTSs are all pretty much the same, then maybe overloading one will not be a huge deal.  I found one person who has re-wound several MOTs for welders (two Mots in series on 120V)- he says that they all eventually fail due to one MOT taking too much of the load.  He just accepts having to do another every few years.  When they do blow, does it take all of them or just one, and maybe some type of simple overload circuit; or, even simpler for me, a fuse(s) could be added in the circuit somehow to prevent blow ups?

Update: Randomly checked five mots in mothballs.  Only 2 were identical & looked medium sized.  3 larger ones varied in weight, windings metals & primary ohm readings.  So findling matching larger sized MOTs may be more difficult so getting very close voltage matches with matching iron cores seems to be challenging.

19
Most of the used server-type 3KW power supplies out there are very good ways to power our +2.5kw IHs.  Alternatively, if you have several MOTs lying around like me you could make one.  For a target 3.5kw version it could get complicated though.   To get a 3.5kw rated transformer PS, I am thinking four MOTS may be required.  Reason being, 30 turns of proper gauge wire is about the maximum number of turns you can get for each transfomer, so to get 60V you'd wire two in series - so far so good?  Power-wise, assuming each MOT is equally rated at 1200 Watts, two MOTs in series would only give 2.4kw.  So maybe two more transformers added in parallel would be required, giving 4.8kw?  Pete and company please find the flaws in my thinking.  Another question is -- 4.8kw would require 220v outlet.  All my MOTs are rated at 120v - can a 120v MOT even be used with 220V?

UPDATE:  None of my 120v circuits have 30amp fuses at the panel.  Maybe add a 30amp 120v circuit and do three MOTs in series wired with 20 turns each with heavier gauge wire and still get 3kw?

If you'd like more info on how to properly rewire a microwave transformer check out Pete's YouTube video.
/>

20
Broke my promise David only to say how admirable I think it is that you, Pete and so many others here take the time to help knobs like me out especially considering how valuable your time is.  :)

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5

* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: MidiStick Polyphonic USB Midi Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
Today at 04:53:09 AM
post Re: Project: FreakyDRSSTC MK1
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
Today at 02:32:21 AM
post Re: gdt high frequency ring
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
Today at 02:28:12 AM
post Re: Some questions about DRSSTC's, and guidance to build one.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
Today at 12:20:45 AM
post Re: Some questions about DRSSTC's, and guidance to build one.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
MRMILSTAR
April 19, 2021, 09:59:08 PM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic Circuits]
petespaco
April 19, 2021, 09:35:16 PM
post Re: Some questions about DRSSTC's, and guidance to build one.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
AstRii
April 19, 2021, 08:48:07 PM
post Re: gdt high frequency ring
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
balazs
April 19, 2021, 05:03:29 PM
post Intensifying screen
[X-ray]
Merces
April 19, 2021, 04:45:03 PM
post Some questions about DRSSTC's, and guidance to build one.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mrsebe
April 19, 2021, 04:36:43 PM
post Whoohoooooo
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
GrantV
April 19, 2021, 12:29:03 PM
post Please, Share SSTC schematics with me
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
hashtala
April 19, 2021, 10:02:46 AM
post Should this work.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
April 19, 2021, 06:04:03 AM
post Re: Mitsubishi CM300DY-24H IGBT
[Beginners]
thedoc298
April 19, 2021, 02:48:40 AM
post Re: Mitsubishi CM300DY-24H IGBT
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
April 18, 2021, 08:04:18 PM
post Mitsubishi CM300DY-24H IGBT
[Beginners]
thedoc298
April 18, 2021, 07:10:24 PM
post Re: gdt high frequency ring
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
balazs
April 18, 2021, 01:11:28 PM
post Re: Drsstc Driver Board for Tesla Coil Driver Optic Fiber Splice
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
iw1esu
April 18, 2021, 12:26:48 PM
post Re: Mains synced sstc questions
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Magneticitist
April 18, 2021, 02:36:34 AM
post Re: Help needed with SSTC. First TC build
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
April 18, 2021, 01:24:59 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
mrsebe
April 17, 2021, 07:56:07 PM
post Re: Project: FreakyDRSSTC MK1
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 17, 2021, 07:50:17 PM
post Re: Help needed with SSTC. First TC build
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Maverikie
April 17, 2021, 07:20:58 PM
post Re: Project: FreakyDRSSTC MK1
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
GrantV
April 17, 2021, 11:53:37 AM
post Re: Help needed with SSTC. First TC build
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 17, 2021, 09:34:02 AM
post Re: Help needed with SSTC. First TC build
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
April 17, 2021, 05:36:49 AM
post Re: Project: FreakyDRSSTC MK1
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 17, 2021, 04:30:36 AM
post Help needed with SSTC. First TC build
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Maverikie
April 16, 2021, 09:22:47 PM
post HELP .... PLEASE?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
GrantV
April 16, 2021, 10:50:24 AM
post Re: Mains synced sstc questions
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
dexter
April 15, 2021, 10:48:12 PM
post Re: Drsstc Driver Board for Tesla Coil Driver Optic Fiber Splice
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
TMaxElectronics
April 15, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
April 14, 2021, 10:56:15 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
April 14, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
post Re: Single mosfet bifiliar gdt
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
aie212
April 14, 2021, 09:19:51 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
304er
April 14, 2021, 07:54:38 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
304er
April 14, 2021, 07:42:50 PM
post Re: Single mosfet bifiliar gdt
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2021, 07:39:14 PM
post Re: Mains synced sstc questions
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2021, 07:35:25 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
davekni
April 14, 2021, 07:34:33 PM
post Mains synced sstc questions
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
costas_p
April 14, 2021, 05:00:12 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
April 14, 2021, 03:51:36 PM
post Re: Drsstc Driver Board for Tesla Coil Driver Optic Fiber Splice
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
GrantV
April 14, 2021, 11:40:45 AM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
304er
April 14, 2021, 10:31:23 AM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
304er
April 14, 2021, 10:03:39 AM
post Re: Secondary Resonant Circuit Size
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2021, 08:07:39 AM
post Re: Secondary Resonant Circuit Size
[Beginners]
davekni
April 14, 2021, 04:22:58 AM
post Re: Drsstc Driver Board for Tesla Coil Driver Optic Fiber Splice
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
iw1esu
April 14, 2021, 01:07:11 AM
post Secondary Resonant Circuit Size
[Beginners]
benet
April 13, 2021, 11:52:24 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
April 13, 2021, 10:17:24 PM
post Re: My 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
davekni
April 13, 2021, 09:47:39 PM

SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal