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Messages - Hydron

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1
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: Watercooling
« on: May 01, 2024, 09:09:57 AM »
Oh for sure not saying that's the right way to do it, more thinking about what the quick and dirty minimal modification options are for testing at least.

Keeping corrosion and conductivity down may be pretty important for closed loop systems given the voltage on the primary. Having a long enough pipe is probably sufficient for open loop.

2
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: Watercooling
« on: April 30, 2024, 10:51:05 PM »
if you run open loop water cooling from a garden hose or something, surely you can just blow out any remaining water with compressed air or something once done and just ignore any corrosion? Not like many coils run for substantial amounts of time.

3
Please keep questions on-topic, this question has nothing to do with Bleeder resistors.

You've also already asked this in other threads - be patient and someone will likely answer a reasonable question (as I did in the other thread where you asked). I suggest going and reading the forum rules, specifically #3.

4
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: DRSSTC Questions
« on: March 16, 2024, 08:21:44 PM »
Best to keep the GDT ratio to 1:1:1:1:1, allows to wind using twisted pairs, with one wire of each pair a secondard, and all the other wires in parallel as a single primary, with very good coupling (low leakage inductance).

Then just run the UD2.7 off a lower voltage (change the regulator or just supply the correct voltage) and adjust the UVLO to suit (a few volts below the nominal drive voltage).

Unless you're pushing very large currents well beyond the IGBT rating (probably not a great idea with TO-247 parts) you won't need more than 15-18V. I've run the same parts up to at least their Icm rating of 225A at 300+kHz (though you need to be careful about hard-switching at those currents!)

5
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: DRSSTC Questions
« on: March 16, 2024, 02:42:39 PM »
Just run the driver at a voltage lower than 24V, I'd suggest something in the 15-18V range. Then you can use a 1:1 CT for easiest and best results.

6
I also don't see why it wouldn't work, though I'd be very careful about using pulse skipping or any other modulation that puts extra stress on the diodes (beyond the rundown phase they're going to be active during regardless).

7
You are correct that the UVLO has a major flaw at <8V - unfortunately it'd been copied by others before I found the issue. See also another post by me about it: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=2054.msg15613#msg15613

8
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
« on: November 18, 2023, 10:19:52 PM »
You could probably do your own "hacky" ramp by fiddling with the PSoC code. Likely would just need tweaking the appropriate logic schematic to output pwm for the ramp instead of a variable phase shift, plus possibly a bit of SW tweaking, but the majority of the code can probably be left as is.

9
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: GDT design
« on: September 14, 2023, 04:33:09 PM »
You could wind the GDTs with something like RG-174 or similar small diameter coax - voltage rating should be >1kV (look it up for whatever cable you find) and you can run the primary winding on the shield and the secondary on the core for very high coupling (low leakage).

10
Use a fixed primary and tap the MMC :P

Only joking a little bit - if you have a MMC arrangement that has enough series and/or parallel caps and voltage/current headroom it can be adjusted, with fine tuning done if needed with the length/orientation of the lead wire to the primary (haven't tried this second bit myself).
To get it close initially either simulate the coil well or use an temporary adjustable primary tap and then fix it in the correct spot once found.

11
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: My first DRSSTC
« on: July 12, 2023, 10:35:48 AM »
Looks very nice for a first build!

12
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: frame arcing
« on: July 10, 2023, 11:09:44 PM »
You can throw some pre-drilled/cut FR4 spacers into your next PCB order for ~free - along with some insulating sleeve washer things it should do the trick

13
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
« on: July 07, 2023, 04:36:46 PM »
Looks good - I'd certainly noticed some nasty switching early in a burst, though I'm not sure whether it was due to this bug (I assumed it was from mismatch between start_freq and actual resonant freq). Will certainly need to give the fix a go myself.

Are your changes in the digipot branch of Netzpfuscher's repo?

14
This form of snubber can be quite useful, though doesn't seem common.  I used a similar circuit (same except resistors are parallel with capacitors) on an IGBT-brick H-bridge at work.  Helps with the inductive spike across the IGBT who's internal diode is turning on.  Does not help with portion of spike developed across lead inductance of IGBT that is turning off.  More common R+C snubbers help with both, at the expense of much higher power dissipation in the resistors.
The style I posted could in theory still help with turn-off in the situation that the C+D part of the snubber is lower inductance and has a diode which starts conducting faster than the full path through the other IGBT's diode and the Vbus capacitors. Would really depend on the reason for the spike though, and whether it can absorb enough of the spike given that the capacitor starts with Vbus across it (the advantage of that is minimising dissipation though).
In my situation at one point I suspected that either the antiparallel diodes in the opposing IGBTs were too slow ("forward recovery voltage" is a thing), or that the physical layout I'd chosen was inherently too inductive, but a newer PCB suggested that this might not be the issue (and these snubbers may be futile) - I should really look at other styles as well though (e.g. try a RC snubber and live with the additional dissipation). I think in theory with correct timing (i.e. always switch a bit before zero crossing for ZVS turn-on) just a capacitor across the IGBT might work (still in theory a RC in this case - R being the ESR/parasitics).
Quote
If the problem is turn-off spikes, my buffer will not help with that.  Buffer is designed for very fast turn-off (to minimize IGBT Eoff) and lower gate drive power.
Edit:  After a bit more thought, possibly it could reduce spikes a little on three-lead IGBTs, since Vge swings down to 0V and not negative.  I'm using it on four-lead IGBTs with Kelvin emitter connections.  With three leads, emitter lead inductance might slow turn-off a bit, as inductance adds to internal Vge during current fall.
Yeah this surprised me a bit too, wasn't expecting a big difference in turn-off spikes, more just a cleaner faster waveform, but it looks like I got a bit of both. I am using 3-pin devices (and am annoyed with myself that I forgot to order the 4-pin ones you've got while Farnell had them at a cheap clear-out price).

15
Might be useful to see the PCB layout of the bridge and gate drive components. I've been battling some turn-off overshoot issues myself and PCB layout made a huge difference to their magnitude (and yes I did see some overshoot with 80% magnitude in some of my earlier layouts).

Couple of other options maybe worth trying if you think it's definitely the turn-off spikes killing the IGBTs:
- Using a snubber like the one in the attachment - would need a tight layout for the D and C to minimise stray L (resistor doesn't sit in the fast current path so isn't critical), and a diode that starts forward conduction very quickly. This type of snubber only clamps voltages above the steady state bus voltage so power dissipation is not a big concern as it can be with other styles. This is on my list to try if I do another PCB spin (especially if I can find some appropriate parts in JLC's assembly list).
- If you're turning the IGBTs off via a gate resistor (as opposed to just totally bypassing with a diode for turn-off) then you might be able to tame the spikes a little by using TVS diodes to clamp the voltage between gate and collector (NOT emitter) to ~400V or so (will end up clamping a fair bit higher because of TVS behaviour). This will help reduce spikes by slowing turn-off when it causes high Vce voltages, though in extreme cases it may risk some cross-conduction though if it delays turn-off too long.
- Have a go with Dave's GDT buffer - it did improve the behaviour on my coil: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=2389.0

Improved PCB layout made a much larger difference than trying the TVS clamping trick in my case though so I'd start there. 4 layer boards are crazy cheap these days and give you a lot of flexibility in reducing loop area etc (though take care not to end up with too much stray C between gate and collector). I'll try and tidy up my own latest half-bridge board design and release the PCBs this weekend, though I haven't gotten them going at full bus voltage yet either (or with the full planned 8 half-bridges - just testing with 2 for now and a 4*higher-Z tank).
I'm also trying to hard switch >100A too (without avalanche rated parts) so I'm playing on hard mode, as the 4 IGBTs I've killed so far attest to.

16
What kind of gate drive power this driver can support? My big coil (3.5 meters, ~30kW) is running some pretty big silicon, UD2.5 will handle it with 2 GDTs.
Will support the same GDT drive power as UD2.x - the drive stage is basically the same (albeit with a different P&N FET footprint, though it is possible to make a combined one that will take any of the TO-252/Power-SO8 options). You could even double up the PCB and only populate the gate drive section if you wanted to use 4 GDTs. Each of the two outputs is separate btw, which allows for freewheeling, phase-shift QCW etc.

Note that in the case of the coil I'm building now I'm using the UD3 code but not the PCB, and have located the gate drive circuitry on another board much closer to the GDTs/IGBTs (GDTs are planar transformers built right into the board!), will try and post some pics of that shortly.

With JLCPCB assembly prices what they are it might make sense to go all the way to isolated direct per-IGBT drivers though (at which point you can get desat detection etc as well to detect if one of those big IGBTs fail) - these days GDTs may not be the best choice for a more advanced coil and I'm considering whether to change tack with my design. Needs much more PCB design work though, so not the right choice for those trying to do a simpler coil and avoiding PCB layout work.

TMax - quick question on this topic, am interested in the choice of 100R on the output of the MOSFET driver, it seems like a fairly high value, have you noticed any slow-down of the gate drive because of it? Or are you using fets with significantly less gate charge than the FDD8424Hs?

17
Looks good! BTW when you get pissed off with denting the aluminium ducting toroid every time you look at it wrong, invest in some stainless single walled flu-liner - it's not indestructible but will shrug off something that would totally crumple the aluminium stuff.

18
Quote
Finally a comment about the bipolar LEM current sensors
Interesting Idea, but that gets a little cumbersome to do with three phase supplies. Not impossible, but just puttign a hall in between the rectifier and the bus seems a little easier to me :D

I also just prepared the order of the board, and including assembly of most smd components the boards cost less thatn 150$ for 5. I personally find that crazy, especially with all of the specialized non-basic parts in the design.
They are early prototypes and will likely have some bugs, but if anybody wants to have a board or two (without the psoc though!) just send me a pm and we can work something out.

Thanks for the reply, I think it's probably a good idea to have a look at shoot through before ordering my boards - the FDD8424 is pretty well matched but the AOD609 isn't quite so close. Could also just add the optional parts if I'm not too lazy.

RE three phase input - yes that certainly changes the equation about using the LEM sensor, however I've never had the pleasure of living somewhere with ready access to three phase power, so I honestly didn't even think of that :'(

150$ for 5 is indeed crazy cheap, I really need to try the service at some point (though I'd lose the luxury of parts on both sides of the board). Are there many SMD parts they couldn't manage? I didn't find any P+N FETs for the output in their available parts list so I assume this is one of the ones you have to add? Though it would be easy to miss something with the terrible parts search system.

19
Great timing on the update - I'm in the middle of laying out a GDT board to be driven from a UD3.x controller, so while I won't be using your new PCB layout some of the schematic changes are certainly of interest. Once done and tested I'll be uploading my designs btw, though they are going to be pretty customised for my specific project.

The thing I'm most interested in is the GDT mosfets and their drive circuit:
- is there a preferred output P+N-ch mosfet you're aiming at and have tested? I've got some AOD609s and the good old FDD8424Hs, but those aren't always easy to find, and the power-SO-8 package style you're using here seems more standardised. I might see if I can hack a footprint up enough to allow compatibility with the SO-8 as well as the TO-252 styles in my design.
- What sort of gate threshold variation do you think requires the passive deadtime network? I'm assuming that gate charge variation between P and N could also have an effect too if the difference is large enough? I must admit that I haven't looked much at this part of the gate drive circuit, as with the FDD8424Hs it's basically just always seemed to work OK - my measurements and simulation have mostly been of the GDT itself and the IGBT drive network.
- Have you noticed any performance differences with 5V vs higher (e.g. 12V) UCC drive IC voltage? It's certainly a bit lower power (and easier, given 5V is already needed) to just run it on 5V and skip the intermediate supply between that and the IGBT drive voltage.

Finally a comment about the bipolar LEM current sensors - if all they are doing is looking at the current from rectified mains charging the bulk bus capacitors, then there may be an easier and cheaper way of doing this. If you use a 50/60Hz capable current transformer on the incoming AC line (i.e. before the rectifier) then you can rectify it's output using a small bridge and feed this into the input (with burden resistor), with no power supply required at all - as it's on the AC side then a simple CT is enough. If a voltage doubling rectifier is used for the bus then the burden resistor value set in the UD3 cli/gui should be entered as twice the real value though (OR the CT ratio as half the real ratio), as the CT measures twice the actual DC bus current with the doubling rectifier, so it needs to be scaled to the real value and this is an easy way to do it.

20
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: GDT output buffer
« on: April 28, 2023, 10:58:32 AM »
Half bridge pics attached. BNCs are for scoping Vge and Vce on the low side IGBT.

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[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
alan sailer
May 01, 2024, 12:35:48 AM
post Re: Adjustable High Voltage Electrostatic Precipitator Power Supply with 30KV 300W
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
dante
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[General Chat]
dante
April 30, 2024, 11:00:48 PM
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[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 30, 2024, 11:00:12 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
April 30, 2024, 10:51:05 PM
post X-ray generation from nixie bulbs?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 30, 2024, 10:46:46 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 30, 2024, 08:46:32 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 30, 2024, 07:28:52 PM
post Re: Watercooling
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
April 30, 2024, 07:16:09 PM

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