Post by: Netzpfuscher on December 28, 2017, 07:28:02 PM
I used Steves UD3 driver with small modifications and made a huge code rewrite. The CPU of this driver is a Psoc5LP Cortex-M3 micro, which has a on board FPGA.
The software consists of a FreeRTOS operating system and a bunch of tasks which handles all the control functions. The interrupter is a piece of software inside the driver. I worked a lot to get the software as user friendly as possible. The PC-Interface connects via USB to the PC and enumerates as USB-Midi and USB-Serial Port. You can connect to the serial port with a vt100 terminal and the driver offers you a CLI with autocomplete, history and help functions.
github repo and Wiki: https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/wiki
The driver can sweep through a given frequency range and plot the response of the primary and secondary for easy tuning.
Primary:
Secondary:
Interface:
The driver samples the maximum primary current an displays it in the status window (Youtube Video). It measures the Voltage on the bus and the current to the bus to calculate the rms current and the power.
The driver board:
The complete coil:
The inverter box:
To handle the peak powers I build a buck converter to reduce the 3 phase mains voltage (565V in Germany) to 400V which is the maximum voltage of the capacitors at the moment. The buck is calculated for 10kW continuous power and waits for a enclosure ;D
At the moment I'm working on a new PCB which includes the secondary current circuit and a small fix at the USB-Port.
I would put the complete code and the PCB-Design files on GitHub if I get the permission from Steve (90% of the PCB, the Logic in the FPGA and a little bit of software which I haven't rewritten is his work)
Post by: futurist on December 29, 2017, 05:58:18 PM
I've been playing with lower-tech UD+ for some time now and I use it on my DRSSTC. It's a really nice upgrade from UD2.7C I've been previously using, and Hydron did some tweaks to the VHDL code to make SIG and OCD LEDs more visible. So far there isn't a single writeup of someone using the driver and/or potential problems they encountered, which I hope will change in the future.
Until now I didn't see any details about UD3, except spec sheet (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bm-FXaXNVYp29zDJLbYlqE-bow6KqK9jpyYCS02qUsA/pub) written by Steve. I'd like to see it gets public like UD2 and UD+ and I'm looking forward to building one. Do you know what does Steve think about releasing UD3 to the public?
Post by: Hydron on December 30, 2017, 09:45:51 AM
I assume you're using 1200V silicon, and that the 400V limit is because you're trying to maximise the energy storage of the electrolytics by running 3 in parallel rather than 2 in series? Or can the IGBTs not handle the 565V either?
I am very interested in using and adding to your work if it can be released. I am currently building a phase-shift modulation QCW coil, and while the hardware design is well advanced, I am inexperienced in coding and VHDL, so that is going very slow (I currently just have a simple driver running on a FPGA dev board, and have not added a MCU yet). Anything with the sort of functionality that you've managed to implement would be a huge help (especially if the RTOS makes it easy to add tasks, e.g. for controlling a PFC boost stage), though I'd be doing my own PCB design.
Post by: Mads Barnkob on December 30, 2017, 10:02:57 AM
I really like the idea of a terminal/cli controlled coil, OS independent.
Built in tuning functions, surveillance sensors and MIDI, what is not to like. I was wondering if your interface/driver can be networked/cascaded for multiply coils running on each their midi channel?
Great work so far and I hope you find a solution with Steve, he has a good record for publishing his stuff and only stopped because he spend too much time supporting others building from his plans.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on December 30, 2017, 12:13:38 PM
Yes I'm using SKM200GB124D IGBTs. The inverter was intended for developing the firmware, not for maximum streamer length. Therefore for the ease of building the bridge I only used one cap. I ordered a box of 40µF 1100V DC-Bus film capacitors with a rms current rating of 21A each. If I have time I build a MMC for the DC-Bus with around 500µF.
With RTOS it is very easy to add other functions, there are a lot of CPU cycles free.
@Mads Barnkob
The cascading feature is on the way ^^ the hardware is there. I used little daughter boards for the fiber conversion. On the connector are two UARTs so it is only a software thing to add this feature. Then the master coil filters on the MIDI-Channel and relays the messages to the other coils.
The CLI is a little bit trickier. I think I use a command for switching between the coils like "switch coil2".
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The other way is to use WIFI daughter boards. I have a working prototype with a ESP8266 which acts as a MIDI-RTP (Apple MIDI) and Telnet Server. But the timing over WIFI is not very accurate.
Post by: Steve Ward on February 18, 2018, 07:00:45 PM
Wanted to mention that UD3, with its extra HVDC sensing inputs, DC current sensor input and the few unassigned digital outputs, is capable of controlling a PFC or buck stage in addition to its usual TC duties (and it can also do phase-shift bridge control). I have code for both of these instances (the buck driver code is really hacky... but it works) so if someone is really wanting to take this on, i can send code. Of course, it's not at all compatible with what Jens has done here!
The tuning plots are really slick... did you add an extra CT input to get the secondary response? Im sorta confused about what the difference is between those 2 plots you show... since the Fres dropped and another peak showed up, my guess was that the first plot was primary only (secondary physically removed) and then second plot had the secondary in place, but it says 0.3A which to me means you have a CT on the secondary ground lead.
Post by: Hydron on February 18, 2018, 11:59:59 PM
As for the response plots - there is indeed an extra CT input, using the same circuit as the CTout net but with a 5R burden resistor. Once I get something up and running myself I'll be comparing the plots to what I get out of a FRA instrument (which also gives the primary, secondary and split-poles).
I'm personally also interested in the PFC possibilities/code, though I have a lot of work to do on my coil before I get to that part (and would also need to understand FreeRTOS more before I start adding tasks/code to Netzpfuscher's work). Will PM with my email address.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on February 19, 2018, 09:20:44 AM
Steve you are right, the first plot is without secondary and the second plot is with the secondary in place. The primary capacitor needs to be bridged while plotting the secondary.
I think we should add a autotune lockout if the bus voltage is higher than xx Volts. The peak detection is done in analog hardware, so the ADC has plenty of time to digitize the peak current. The peak detector consists of a sample and hold and a comperator. If the interrupter signal gets high the sample and hold is enabled and tracks the maximum peak. If the interrupter gets low the ADC kicks in and digitizes the voltage from the sample and hold. If the ADC conversion complete signal goes high the sample and hold gets zeroed. I think I post a picture later.
I think we can use this circuit to tune the "max_current" parameter, we can add a factor which is controlled by the peak detector. If you dial in 400A max_current trip point and during run the current goes higher, the factor is set to for example 0,8. Then at the next cycle the overcurrent trips at 320A.
The analog processing in my code is done asynchronous. The ADC fills a buffer and at a certain level the analog task gets a semaphore. The complete buffer gets processed and the task goes back to sleep. This is a problem to implement a buck or a pfc. There is work to be done. I removed nearly all of the float calculations and the square root, because this is very expensive on a cortex-m3. The calculations are done with integer arithmetic and the sqrt is a approximation.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on February 20, 2018, 07:43:59 AM
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3_PSOC
This is the last working version. I'm working to update to FreeRTOS 10 which isn't running yet, I get a out of heap error :(. If it is running I will add a development branch.
Post by: malte0811 on February 20, 2018, 09:03:19 AM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on February 20, 2018, 09:16:40 AM
Post by: Hydron on March 04, 2018, 10:34:17 PM
See the attached pic of the rats nest of cables I was using to run it - breadboard with PSoC PCB is above the mousepad (bench PSU power has now been replaced by a variac+isolation transformer and things have been tidied a little!). I also took a quick video of it running at 130V on the bus (obviously more space will be needed to put real power through the coil!):
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I have run it up to ~170V on the bus, though I am running into issues much above 130-150V with interference occasionally causing the controller to lose ZCS sync - probably not a surprise given how messy it is. The spikes on the hard switched transitions (in QCW phase shift modulation mode) are also quite large and a little worrying - I will need to look carefully at the PCB layout of the bridge and the gate drive resistors etc to see if I can tidy it up a bit.
To get it running on the dev board + breadboard setup I had to do a bit of work changing it to compile on the (slightly) different PSoC part, and have a few goes with pin selection to get the analogue routing to complete. I haven't had time to look at much of the code other than this stuff, though I do intend to get in and add/change things, and to have a go at getting an interface other than a serial console working.
Thanks to Netzpfusher and Steve for their work - has been fun getting it making sparks, and has helped hugely with testing things before I do any more PCB/software design for my coil.
Post by: profdc9 on March 05, 2018, 01:30:23 AM
Post by: Hydron on March 05, 2018, 09:43:43 AM
The only reason I haven't posted more detail is because my setup is such a hack, and while all pins are routed on the PSoC, many are un-used. I just have the gate drive pins (going to another PCB with the actual drive circuitry on it - the green board in the top of the attached pic), UVLO shorted to +5V, CT current-sense and ZCS pins used. I've attached a close-up of the breadboard setup (note that while there is a crystal on there I couldn't find the right load capacitors in my parts box so I'm using the internal oscillator, which is really good enough anyway).
The biggest thing to watch for is to make sure that all pins can be internally routed to the required places on the PSoC chip - there are some restrictions as to what pins can go where on the chip, and limited routing resources (especially for analogue), so I had to shuffle some pins around the chip until the PSoC creator software could find a way to route everything. The other thing that should be done (but doesn't have to) is to adjust the speed that the PLL is running at - the PSoC dev board has a faster version of the chip than the UD3 design, and can run up to 80MHz rather than 67MHz (actually set to 64).
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 05, 2018, 10:48:54 AM
The price is definitively lower with the dev-board. But there are some points to save money on the board, I used gatedrivers from Micrel which are a lot cheaper than TI. For the GDT-output stage there are cheaper mosfets from Diodes (DMC3021LK4-13). The DCDC Converter is a 7805 compatible device, which can be sourced from china. Perhaps we can change the board and add the DCDC from the UD+.
You must be careful if you run the chip at 80Mhz. Some of the logic uses the 64Mhz PLL as Clock, I'm not sure if all of the timing calculations works correctly. Thats a thing to check before cranking up the speed.
Post by: Hydron on March 05, 2018, 11:06:11 AM
Post by: Mads Barnkob on March 07, 2018, 06:45:14 AM
Could some of your switching spikes be due to low voltage DC bus and the output capacitance is playing you a trick? About the interference, I would get things boxed up and shielded before looking more into that.
I would still prefer a through hole driver board with a pin header for the dev. board, the only downside to this would be when the dev. board is discontinued from the manufacturer and suddenly it would be a bigger job making that yourself than soldering in the actually chip on a UD.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 07, 2018, 01:51:24 PM
It is also possible to add WiFi or Ethernet to the UD3 with a ESP32 or ESP8266, I have a proof of concept on my hard drive.
Post by: Hydron on March 07, 2018, 04:05:47 PM
Absent something more standardised I had actually thought of re-purposing a RS485 protocol we use for CCTV control at work (mainly because there's well-debugged code that I could re-use, though not release), but using something standard and open-source would be best.
I'm just putting together a Mouser order for UD3 parts, and the 80MHz speed grade part (CY8C5888AXI-LP096) is barely more than the 67MHz part, so I'll build a board up with one of those and have a go at increasing the clock frequency (work on the clock speed will likely be delayed by a long vacation though).
Lastly, I'll probably have a go at running my coil outside at full mains voltage in the next few days - will try and get video of the success/destruction.
Post by: Hydron on March 11, 2018, 11:17:45 PM
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Control was via serial over the orange fibre optic lead, and I was able to look at bridge output current/voltage using a pearson CT and a couple of differential probes. The heater that can be seen is acting as ballast for my poor 2A Variac so it won't blow it's brushes to bits trying to charge the caps after each burst :P
The test was a success in that nothing went pop at 360VDC on the bus (variac cranked up to 11 on 240VAC supply), but the coil didn't behave that well otherwise. The spikes seen when hard switching were rather extreme, at up to ~750V (that may be a little high - I know that the probes used will ring themselves due to parasitics of the leads they use, but having checked with other standard 100x probes, I know the spikes are still there and large). This seems to cause the controller to lose ZCS synch, and causes waveforms like the following throughout most of the burst:
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I'll be looking at the code to see if it can be made more resilient to noise, but to really fix things I think I'll need to get a revised version of the coil running with better layout etc (and higher current capability with 4x the number of IGBTS - was hitting my 225A limit a lot!). It has been really useful building up part of the bridge as a small scale prototype though - I've learnt a lot about what I should do for the final coil and will probably re-use some of the spare parts to make a smaller coil in the future.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 12, 2018, 08:01:52 AM
It looks like there is a overcurrent event and the driver goes to the freewheeling mode. But I don't know if it should do phaseshift during the ringdown. I haven't tested the QCW mode very much because I have a big low impedance coil. The big mess is under ~90A primary current, what CT ratio did you use?
The input comparator stage has a threshold which is defined in ZCDtoPWM.c:
//set reference voltage for zero current detector comparators
ZCDref_Data = 25;
If I find a little bit time, I can do measurements at my coil to see if there are problems with the logic.
Post by: Hydron on March 12, 2018, 08:23:55 AM
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And another with odder behaviour (overall view, part of interest at division labelled 16.05ms):
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Zoomed in:
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I am still suspicious that there is some element of interference from the hard switching spikes happening here - behaviour seemed better when I'd reduced them by modifying the bridge. Unfortunately I don't think I'm going to have a chance to work on the coil again to test anything until about this time next month, however I will have a go with using the UD3 (and also taking some arc current measurements) on a larger DRSSTC if time permits.
Post by: Steve Ward on March 26, 2018, 03:54:22 AM
All that being said, did you follow the same schematic as the UD3 for the CT input? Those filter caps are pretty essential i think... routing long wires to the dev board might be iffy around tesla coils :P.
I used 15 ohm turn on gate resistance with the FGH60N60 IGBTs and i use 2:1 GDT ratio to step the 24V drive to 12V as we are not abusing the peak current rating of the IGBTs in QCW coils. Be sure you have sufficient dead time in your gate drive to avoid hard commutation of the output voltage. What i mean is, the IGBT should always switch off early enough so that the primary current causes voltage commutation at the half-bridge output and the IGBT turn on is at zero voltage (ZVS). If there is not enough deadtime, you will switch the IGBT on before the voltage at the output has changed, and this rapid charging of the other IGBTs junction capacitance can ring at very high frequencies with the stray inductance of your bridge. Also, if the IGBTs are switching late, and the IGBT turning on must force the opposite diode to recover, this will lead to large spikes as the diode recovery is a high di/dt across the stray inductance. I observe very nice switching waveforms on the 60n60s even when hard switching in phase shift mode. Perhaps 50V maximum overshoot with 400V bus and 60A peak current per device. Going easy on the turn-on seems like a good, simple choice to combat all the downsides of insufficient deadtime or too-hard-reverse-recovery of the co pack diodes giving big voltage spikes.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on May 09, 2018, 12:41:22 PM
-uint8 / uint16 / uint32
-int8 / int16 / int32
-float
-char
-string
The EEPROM-Dataset is revision save. With the new function it is possible to change the parameterlist and still read the EEPROM to the new parameterlist. The EEPROM function gives a warning if it can't find values in the EEPROM for a new parameter and it warns if there is a value in the EEPROM but not in the firmware.
The next thing I'm working on is a terminal for the UD3. It's based on Chrome App (Javascript) and should run fine on Windows/Linux/Mac. It includes a simple MIDI player which sends the MIDI messages over UART to the UD3 so you don't need a special Interface, a normal USB-UART is fine.
Post by: profdc9 on May 09, 2018, 05:44:23 PM
Also, I was wondering if it would be possible to connect one of the ESP8266 wireless modules to it and use that for a serial port. There's a serial to wifi interface here
https://github.com/jeelabs/esp-link
so it would be possible to use Wifi to talk to the terminal rather than USB. The serial port is totally transparent and as long as there is TTL serial on the microcontroller side you don't need to do anything. You just have to flash the ESP8266 with this firmware and it becomes a serial to wifi interface with a serial port. You can get a ESP8266 module on ebay for like $2, and a CH340 to ESP8266 interface for about $1.50.
Thanks,
Dan
Post by: Hydron on May 09, 2018, 06:36:53 PM
profdc9:
As for serial, the command-line interface also comes up on the TTL TX/RX port in exactly the same way as the USB-UART interface, so it would be easy to talk to the ESP8266. The only thing you might need to check is what the UART speed is set to in the cypress design files. I have used this feature to connect via a fibre-optic serial link (see orange wire in post here: https://highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=188.msg1778#msg1778 )
Post by: Netzpfuscher on May 09, 2018, 10:28:13 PM
With the new terminal there can be a second option. It is possible to implement a TCP or UDP connection to the ESP8266 over socket. This eliminates the need of a virtual com port driver on the computer side. But the WIFI-Link adds a few ms jitter to the data (MIDI), if the WIFI-Link is weak or there is a lot traffic it sounds a little bit wrong.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 17, 2018, 08:35:38 PM
UD3-Firmware with teslaterm support:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3_PSOC/tree/new_CLI
Teslaterm:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/Teslaterm
For running Teslaterm (drop the folder on the nw.js executable or make a link like this: "C:\nwjs-sdk\nw.exe c:\git\teslaterm"):
https://nwjs.io/
And the demo:
Post by: Hydron on June 18, 2018, 11:46:44 AM
Post by: Mads Barnkob on June 18, 2018, 01:48:11 PM
I do however not feel like I have a complete overview of what parts and bits are needed as you all seem to run this on different hardware :o
Post by: Hydron on June 18, 2018, 04:27:14 PM
1) the UD3 design based on Steve Ward's work and updated by Netzpfuscher (not sure if he's released the files for this publicly). This board comes with primary and secondary CT inputs, USB, UART header, relay/fan control, bus voltage/current monitoring, and GDT driver. No changes necessary to compile/run
2) A PSoC5 dev board, connected to (at a minimum) a CT and external GDT driver. This needs the pinout and device selection of the PSoC project to be changed before compilation, and some support circuitry either on a breadboard (as I did, see pics) or on a support PCB like what profdc9 designed. Ironically the dev board is cheaper than a single PSoC part despite having TWO devices on it (one for the programmer/debugger, which you'll need anyway for bringing up a UD3 PCB).
Both of these boards let you connect via USB (it enumerates as a virtual serial port + USB MIDI controller) or a straight TTL UART connection to the appropriate pins. I believe it falls back to UART if USB is not present, but not 100% sure.
When I used it the PC got very unhappy with EMI when using the chipset-native USB2 controller, but was happy with the motherboard's non-native USB3 controller (operating in USB2 mode). Dunno why one was OK and not the other, but I do know that USB is pretty garbage from an EMC immunity point of view, so you'll probably want to hook up to the serial port via a fibre link for proper full-power testing.
The primary interface via serial port is a command-line (as seen in the video and screenshots); I have not investigated properly what other methods can be used for control as the CLI has worked so far for what I have been testing.
Post by: profdc9 on June 18, 2018, 09:07:28 PM
I modified the project for the new pin assignments. You can get the file in 7zip format below. It doesn't have any of Netzpfuscher's Tesla term modifications yet though. I also modified the serial port speed to be 38400 baud rather than 2 Mbaud, because I will probably be using this with either a ESP8266 (which I have used successfully) or with an optical transmitter and receiver.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19qv76rRRxeaazcwBBeACj1WtnnMVr_3k
One note: when putting the PSoc5 into the pin socket, you might need to bend the pin sockets in slightly because if they are bowing out, they will tend to push the PSoC5 out of the sockets causing loose connections. I think this is because it is difficult to get the pin header socket to stand up perfectly straight when soldering it in so you have to tweak it.
I probably won't have time to try this, but I would like to, but I am having too much fun with the UD2.9 skip pulse to take the coil apart, but I will probably try this driver eventually.
Dan
Post by: Hydron on June 18, 2018, 11:18:56 PM
It will run just fine without the sensing stuff (see my minimal breadboard on the first page), just doesn't report anything.
Post by: profdc9 on June 19, 2018, 03:19:15 AM
Dan
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 19, 2018, 08:14:00 AM
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3_PCB
This design is untested due to a lack of time ^^
I would be very happy if someone helps with the UD3, we need documentation (Git Wiki). A SMD version with Kicad would be a big thing, Altium is to expensive. If we go with the same processor like on the dev-kit (QFN), we only need to maintain one software. I haven't found a good solution in PSOC-Creator to handle more than one processor.
@profdc9
The esp supports way more than 38400 baud. Perhaps the serial bridge software can be modified? If you want to use teslaterm the datarate can be a little bit slow. It works but the terminal can be little bit slow. While a chart/gauge frame is transferred the output of the CLI is blocked, so there can be a delay up to 145ms (70 bytes). I have a missing option in teslaterm, there is no baud-rate selector :o
Post by: Mads Barnkob on June 20, 2018, 11:26:14 AM
I would be very happy if someone helps with the UD3, we need documentation (Git Wiki).
I would like to help, but consider me as a completely blank and new guy on that job, I would need a fairly detailed work list :)
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 20, 2018, 02:26:29 PM
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3_PSOC/wiki
Post by: profdc9 on June 20, 2018, 03:15:09 PM
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Certainly some optimizations could be made. Most of the footprints are 0805, and there are a handful of components on the back. The project is attached. There are some things from your design that aren't in mine that could be added (mostly the second current transformer).
Dan
Post by: Hydron on June 20, 2018, 04:08:31 PM
I can also have a look at updating Netzpfuscher's (untested) PCB to use the same pinout, device etc as the dev board, but it may not be that simple on a 2-layer board with a QFN (also requires hot air to solder the chip, vs a QFP which is do-able with a reasonable iron).
Post by: profdc9 on June 20, 2018, 08:14:29 PM
Dan
Post by: Hydron on June 20, 2018, 11:07:26 PM
Unfortunately the PCBs out in the wild (those from when Steve Ward built his, Netzpfuscher's and one that I have) are designed around a pinout that can't be replicated with a dev board, so there'll always be a need for a couple of different configs. None of this is particularly hard, it's just annoying as someone has to muck about changing stuff for every code release.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 22, 2018, 07:43:29 AM
If someone gives me the pinout of the dev board version I merge it to the git. I only need the ".cydwr" file. Or clone the new repository and make a pull request.
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3
common:
binary Binary files like the precompiled bootloader
ntshell Shell code
rtos FreeRTOS code
uart_ldr UART-Bootloader code
ud3core UD3 code
Post by: profdc9 on June 22, 2018, 09:41:05 AM
Thanks,
Dan
Post by: Netzpfuscher on July 17, 2018, 07:36:39 AM
- Ethernet support with a Wiznet W5500
- Teslaterm with IP-Support
- Teslaterm now has a MIDI-In. With a virtual MIDI-Port it is possible to send MIDI from every App you like
- Teslaterm with support for a Korg nanoKONTROL2 controller
- The UART is equipped with a protocol and transport layer for error detection and retransmission (https://github.com/min-protocol/min)
- Burst mode interrupter
The Ethernet connects to the 8pin header on the UD3. I think Ethernet is a good choice. It is isolated, cheap and you don't need special Hardware. If you want to run a multi coil system, you can throw a switch between the coils and connect a fiber Ethernet to the computer. If I have the Firmware in a good state, I upload a release in binary form. I think it is much easier to flash a binary for someone who is no programmer ^^
We hit the 2m ^^
Post by: Netzpfuscher on August 17, 2018, 09:09:30 AM
Actually I'm working on the duty cycle limiter for the MIDI mode. My first proof of concept works relatively good. There are no more big current spikes if a very high MIDI-Note is playing.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on September 09, 2018, 07:59:44 PM
Post by: Uspring on September 10, 2018, 01:37:22 PM
There was a short discussion on 4hv a few years ago on tricks to enhance TC sounds.
http://4hv.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?157570.0#post_157851
Post by: Hydron on September 10, 2018, 04:31:16 PM
Unfortunately I haven't had time to do much work on coiling recently, but I will be giving your new code a go when I get a chance. I'll also be in NZ again at the end of the year, so will have my large coil to play with too (I have a 75% finished UD3 board to install into it). On that note, Uspring - I'll be having another go at the toroid current measurements I promised and failed to do in April, this time I will have a lot more time to spare and hopefully won't injure my back trying to lift the coil down out of storage like I did in April!
Post by: Mads Barnkob on September 12, 2018, 08:56:06 AM
I will set it up as a goal for this winter to get a working UD3 with your software :)
Post by: Netzpfuscher on September 13, 2018, 08:59:50 AM
I also work on a new PCB revision in Kicad with integrated Ethernet. Ethernet works so great and doesn't need special Hardware. I think it is better to go away from the expensive Altium ^^
Thanks to malte0811 the Teslaterm is growing. He added a scripting feature to automate the coil for show use.
In general the UD3 ist still fully functional with a normal VT100 Terminal.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 07, 2018, 09:43:57 PM
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/Teslaterm
Post by: Hydron on November 07, 2018, 09:50:32 PM
Post by: plasmatree on March 25, 2019, 06:34:09 PM
It has been >10y that I messed with tesla stuff, but somehow it's in my head again. ::)
Looking at the different UD iterations using FPGAs seems obvious to me. Combined with the simplicity of this dev board... great!
I'm preparing to order the pcbs and was wondering if the plans for the Psoc5-Power (https://github.com/profdc9/DRSSTC-PCB-Pack) found in the pcb pack are still the most recent/recommended versions for this driver?
Should I consider to add or change something?
Greetings from Cologne,
Flo
Post by: profdc9 on March 25, 2019, 07:35:14 PM
I could update it if I get an updated pin list. I haven't looked at the latest PsoC creator project lately to see what the new assignments are. I think there is support for Ethernet now.
Dan
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 25, 2019, 08:07:10 PM
Perhaps I add a non development version with the dev kit to the UD3 project.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 31, 2019, 08:54:25 PM
You set the maximum continuous current and the 10s limit from the breaker curve. The UD3 tries to limit the duty cycle to keep the fuse under 60% of the trip point. The gauge on the lowest right is the fuse (100% fuse tripped). The gauge in top of the "fuse" is the duty cycle limiter (higher is more limited).
If the controller can not keep the current low enough and the fuse reaches the 100% the UD3 shuts the coil down.
I think there is a lot to improve, but you can see what I'm trying to do.
Post by: Mads Barnkob on March 31, 2019, 09:51:28 PM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on April 01, 2019, 07:17:28 AM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on May 23, 2019, 09:01:24 PM
We had some problems with the ESP32 interface, but I'm working on a new one. Based on node.js and can be run on every computer/raspberry/orange pi/ etc...
Post by: Hydron on May 25, 2019, 03:40:00 PM
Unfortunately haven't had time to do much work on my coil(s) recently, but when I do I'll have a play with all the new features you've added.
Post by: Mads Barnkob on May 26, 2019, 08:49:19 PM
Do you have more recordings from a little further away, the video does not fully represent how large the coil and sparks really are at those power levels! :)
Post by: Netzpfuscher on May 27, 2019, 08:07:12 AM
Yes you are right, there is stuttering. I investigate this, there are two options. The javascript midiplayer cause this, or there is crap on the serial line in the coil. I added a counter for broken packets in the software. The protocol works like this:
-packet with a sequence number is send to coil
-coil sends a ACK with the sequence number
-the next packet is send
-packet gets corrupted
-no ACK is send
-after 50ms the packet is retransmitted
But 50ms is way to slow for MIDI, you can hear this. I need to play with the parametes perhaps I reduce the retransmit time and introduce a NACK which causes the transmitter to resend the last packet instantaneous.
You don't hear this in the first video. This uses the SID-Synth which has a buffer with around 500ms in the driver.
And we need to change the serial line in the coil. There is a 1m shielded cable from the driver at the bottom to the front panel with the fiber transceiver. In the past we have seen much crap on this line. With the protocol this crap is not visible in the data but it adds jitter.
Post by: Hydron on June 16, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
On another note, I have gotten my CY8CKIT-059 dev board up and running (other than the bootloader mode) with an ESP32 for wireless control - seems to work nicely! For those looking to do the same, note that I did need to change things a bit to run the PSoC UART TX on a SIO pin so that I could lower the high output level (the ESP32 isn't 5V tolerant). I used a different board to the Olimex ESP32 as I only wanted Wifi mode and it was cheap on ebay - I will integrate a ESP32-WROOM module directly into my final design whenever I get to that point!
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 16, 2019, 03:39:15 PM
I have used a voltage divider on the TX pin for the ESP32.
Actually there is a new feature incoming, a alarm and event system. Which helps a lot to debug a coil.
At the end of the month there is a big event here in Germany "Extraschicht" where we have a high voltage show at a old power station. Besides a 4m SGTC we have the big UD3 DRSSTC. I hope everything works :o
Post by: Hydron on June 16, 2019, 04:51:26 PM
Post by: Mads Barnkob on June 17, 2019, 11:13:33 AM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 17, 2019, 09:01:29 PM
alarms get --> shows the last 50 events
alarms reset --> clears the event list
signals --> shows the signal states
kill reset --> clears the sysfault registers which are not self clearing
I merged everything in the master branch https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3
@Hydron I cleaned the timing calculations but I can't see any fault. If you find something, feel free to make a pull request. By the way the lead_time resolution is in 15ns.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on July 02, 2019, 07:19:23 AM
The big SRSGTC
DRSSTC with Popcorn
DRSSTC with Pirates
Post by: Netzpfuscher on July 14, 2019, 06:06:30 PM
- Envelope generators for MIDI and SID (ADSR)
- Signal monitor with auto refresh (q for quit)
- Synthesizer monitor with auto refresh
- Rolling mode for alarm monitor (alarms roll)
The envelopes for SID are automatically configured over the SID-register stream. The envelopes for MIDI can be configured over the command line (mch, attack, decay, release) or over MIDI-Control Change messages (CC 73 --> attack CC 75 --> decay CC 72 --> release). You can set different envelopes for each MIDI channel. The envelope modulates the max-current the pulsewidth is constant.
The UD3-node (node.js interface) now supports the network SID-device protocol, you simply can stream SID music over the ACID64 player.
SID Demo:
Post by: Mads Barnkob on July 15, 2019, 02:51:26 PM
It seems like I am running out of excuses to get a UD3 up and running, didn't someone promise me to write up a guide on which hardware to use etc? Was it Hydron? Futurist? Profdc9? I forgot and unfortunately I do not have the time or mental surplus to take in more new things from scratch right now :)
Post by: Hydron on July 16, 2019, 01:54:30 AM
I'll likely be having another go with mine in the next week or so (in NZ right now), so will report back on how it runs.
Post by: profdc9 on July 16, 2019, 04:05:07 AM
https://github.com/profdc9/DRSSTC-PCB-Pack/tree/master/Psoc5-power
You just need to zip the gerber files and send it to a PCB house like JLCPCB or Seeedstudio and they will send you a board.
Dan
That video is awesome and it got so intense at 0:45!
It seems like I am running out of excuses to get a UD3 up and running, didn't someone promise me to write up a guide on which hardware to use etc? Was it Hydron? Futurist? Profdc9? I forgot and unfortunately I do not have the time or mental surplus to take in more new things from scratch right now :)
Post by: Netzpfuscher on July 16, 2019, 07:39:33 AM
For a simple "Hello UD3" you only need a Dev-Kit and a micro USB cable. For a teslacoil safe connection you only need a USB to TTL board, a pair of fiber transceiver and the interface software.
On the PC side it is as simple as writing the COM-Port to a config.ini, start the .exe and point your browser to "127.0.0.1:2525"
@profdc9
I need to check the pinout against your PCBs. It's possible that I changed some pins over the time. But it can easily corrected in software.
@Hydron
Whats the status with the lead time? Is there an bug?
Edit: 16.07.19 20:15
I added binarys for the UD3 and Teslaterm:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/releases
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3-node/releases
Flash the hex file with psoc programmer: https://www.cypress.com/products/psoc-programming-solutions
Configure the config.ini according to you com port and start the interface with: UD3-node-win.exe -c config.ini
UD3-node is only working over the UD3 UART, not over the dev-kit micro usb. You need a USB TTL UART.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on August 08, 2019, 10:04:39 AM
Resonator:
-1m secondary winding
-~56kHz fres
-500nF 15kV Atesys primary capacitor
Inverter:
-UD3
-2x Electronicon 1800µF 600V DC-Link capacitor
-SKM400 full bridge
-3 phase rectifier -->400V 3ph AC --> 565V DC
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Post by: Coyote on September 27, 2019, 10:32:02 AM
I find this very interesting. I took a look into a schematics which is available on the web, both versions Netzpfuscher and through hole variant of Profdc9, they seem almost identical to me.
But there is something that caught my eye that I can't understand, it's about Vbus and Vin monitor. Netzpfuscher has a note that on each input a 500k resistor has to be connected externally. All clear, it is a differential HV probe with 100:1 attenuation. But the opamp TL082 is supplied with +/-12V, I guess the output range is almost the same, wouldn't this harm the Psoc5 input?
Post by: Mads Barnkob on September 27, 2019, 11:41:59 AM
Nice and solid design, where did you get the DC link capacitors? The blue current transformer is for 50 Hz input current measurement? I can barely read it, is it HIMA timers? Got them cheap somewhere or just at hand, only found only price and that was not low! How about the current rating of the soft-start contactors?
Post by: Netzpfuscher on September 27, 2019, 09:07:55 PM
The opamp design is from Steve. You are right, the output can go around +-11V the series resistors should high enough that the output only goes to 5V. But the Psoc pin is protected by a 1k resistor. Perhaps it is good idea to clamp the signal in the next revision.
@mads
I've bought the DC link on eBay. 5 for 100€. The DC links makes the bridge design much more easy ^^
The blue transformer is a hall effect current transformer for the DC behind the rectifier. On the picture I had forgotten to put the wire through. Yes the relays are from HIMA, just simple SIL3 relays ;) I had them at hand. I don't know exactly right now I think the contractors are 40A.
I was a bit lazy the last weeks, we have a turnaround at work... The next thing is to build a enclosure for the inverter. But I have run a static load test:
Post by: acobaugh on October 22, 2019, 06:05:00 AM
What's the current status of this project? I poked through a couple of github repos, and I think I understand what firmware exists, though I haven't tried to build any of it (I don't think PSoC designer/creator run on Linux).
Specifically, I'm looking for the most up to date PCB designs. Kicad or the final gerber files would be nice. I'm a bit partial to SMT, and I'm not afraid of hand soldering a TQFP. So, either an SMT board with headers for a cypress dev kit, or an SMT board for the TQFP (preferred). I found profdc9's SMT Kicad project, but there was a note that it was unfinished and untested.
I'm also willing to help with github wiki pages and docs if/when I get up to speed on this stuff and gain some operational experience with it.
Post by: Hydron on October 22, 2019, 08:51:33 AM
You may need to have a trawl through the thread and the ud3 github wiki to find the right links but it's all there, at most needing some pin configuration or baud rate tweaking (maybe just because my setup differed slightly).
If you have any issues with the PCB file format (i.e. don't have altium) and there aren't suitable pre-built gerbers the please let me know and I can try and see what formats I can export into.
Post by: acobaugh on October 23, 2019, 01:40:51 AM
I'm also curious about the secondary CT - I thought I read that had to be added on after the fact - has that not been added to the PCB?
It's kind of hard to follow along without the ability to open and view the various project files. Maybe someone could export them to png or pdf maybe?
Post by: Netzpfuscher on October 23, 2019, 09:09:19 AM
I can export all PCB files. I need to make gerbers for myself to order some PCBs. But I'm very busy in the moment.
I started with a Kicad design, but it's not finished: https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3_Kicad
I tried to do some reduction of special components and go for a 4 layer PCB. I'm happy if someone helps me with the whole UD3 thing ^^
This is my actual kicad progress:
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Post by: fnordest on November 25, 2019, 09:29:00 PM
Cheers
Got it! I had to deactivate min protocol.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on December 26, 2019, 11:05:37 PM
-The drums in SID are better now
-Autotune has a warning due to hardswitching
-Sanity checks for current transformer measuring range (burden/current/turns)
We upgraded Florians coil to SKM600 bricks and reached the 3m.
And I worked a little bit on my inverter. Now also with SKM600. ^^
And I bought a car full of new DC link caps 350uF 1500V partly for our next coil with FZ1200 bricks. An because they were cheap ^^
Post by: futurist on December 27, 2019, 01:22:12 AM
How much current are you pushing trough SKM600?
Why did you go for 4-layer pcb, were there any layout issues with 2-layer one? They are at least 3 times more expensive to manufacture unfortunately (elecrow, jlcpcb)
Post by: Netzpfuscher on December 27, 2019, 09:16:34 PM
No there are no issues. I am working also on a new revision from the 2 layer version in Altium.
I started the Kicad 4 layer version with the intention to integrate Ethernet and with the added complexity I wanted a better power routing on the board, so I went to 4 layer. Yes you are right it is not cheap.
The latest pcb:
Post by: Hydron on December 28, 2019, 02:41:45 PM
And I bought a car full of new DC link caps 350uF 1500V partly for our next coil with FZ1200 bricks. An because they were cheap ^^Nice work! I saw those cheap caps on eBay too, problem was the shipping outside Germany was 10x the cost of the caps themselves. Good to see someone is going to get some use out of them!
Post by: acobaugh on January 15, 2020, 08:57:37 PM
I'm also beginning to get the sense that maybe a version of this driver based on an STM32 MCU might be better for more of us to work on? Just barely dipping my toes into the embedded systems waters, so I'm not sure what the real differences are between the cypress PSoCs are and a straight STM32, at least in terms of how the UD3 is using them. All I know is from vscode on linux and the PlatformIO extension I was able to easily hack on and compile firmware for something else.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on January 16, 2020, 11:59:04 AM
The best candidate for a CPU upgrade is the Psoc 6 but it can be tricky because the hardware is different and it has less macro cells, but a dual core CPU (M0 and M4). It is definitely the better choice for number crunching due to the FPU.
I work on a revision of the two layer board in Altium. But I am a little bit busy at the moment. I can push it to GitHub it would be nice if you can migrate to Kicad.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 11, 2020, 11:31:41 AM
I got my new PCBs and made a small batch (5) for me and some friends 8) When I tested everything, I put the gerbers online.
But there a some new cool features in the software too.
-There is a option for line coding. This activates Manchester encoding and decoding. It encodes the UART on a 8 times faster carrier. It is DC free!! so it can transmitted over a transformer or optics from fiber ethernet. I think it also works over SFP modules 8). Be careful with the baudrate 500 kbaud results in a 4 MHz carrier. The bootloader supports this too.
-WS2812 it's highly in development but it works with a 8x8 matrix. There is some visualization of the synthesizer or the bus status.
-Voltage measurement of the driver voltage. Not very accurate but better than nothing.
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3
Post by: oneKone on March 11, 2020, 10:50:36 PM
also,
where did you get the boards made, the soldering looks damn decent!
Post by: fnordest on March 13, 2020, 11:27:13 AM
Do you have any plans about selling populated boards?
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 13, 2020, 08:53:01 PM
The boards are from jlcpcb, I ordered a stencil too. We pick and placed by hand and soldered with a cheap Chinese reflow oven.
@fnordest
It took around one hour for one board. I don't know if I make another run. The parts alone are around 70€ for a single board. The costs for the parts go down quickly if the quantity is higher. For 50 it's around 40€/board.
Post by: Hydron on March 17, 2020, 01:47:14 PM
For those that may not realise, manchester encoding would also likely allow for the use of cheap TOSLINK cables and recievers/transmitters. It would however need to be translated back to a normal UART encoding on the PC control end.
Post by: malte0811 on March 17, 2020, 06:52:59 PM
Manchester encoding could fix this, and since the modules (at least the ones I have) seem to be fine with a constant "high" signal it would be possible to use a standard UART module at the PC and do the Manchester encoding in software (effectively using 4 bits per byte).
For the "real" Manchester encoding Netzpfuscher implemented I believe the plan is to use another PSoC at the PC end.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 23, 2020, 02:33:08 PM
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Post by: Netzpfuscher on April 18, 2020, 08:26:15 PM
In every UD3 it's now possible to define a filter string in a simple format:
f<100 = only frequencys over 100Hz are played
f>500 = only frequencys under 500Hz are played
c0 = only midi/sid-channel 0
c1 = only midi/sid-channel 1
c3 = only midi-channel 3
so a string can look like: "c0c3f<100f>500"
With this filter it is possible to split the music over many coils, I think the only limit is the bandwidth of the ethernet ;D If the lockdown is over I need to test it on the real coil.
Post by: fnordest on April 19, 2020, 11:13:57 AM
What SID player and editor do you use?
Maybe i could look into a implementation of OSC for the UD3. I think that would make a smooth integration in a professional stage setup. Unfortunately i don't know how to java so it may take a while.
Right now i am messing with java and node trying to build Teslaterm from source. :o When i connect to teslaterms web-server i get a nested UI in the lower part of the main UI where the terminal should be. I am trying to fix this and get more familiar with java in the process.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on April 19, 2020, 05:18:00 PM
There is a OSC module in node.js, I can take a look on this. My work on all of this is for professional use, sadly due to corona our big event is canceled.
The nested UI thing is only present in Firefox, I need to fix it. You can use Chrome. I merged the dev branch to the master, now everything is up to date. But at the moment I can not upload a new prebuild release. There is a problem while packaging the node modules. But everything should work if you install node.js. But I compiled new UD3 firmware binarys the "cyacd" files are in the git.
At the first time you need "npm install" after that you can run it with "node index.js -c config.ini".
The SID function of the new UD3 firmware is incompatible with my version of Teslaterm (Malte is working on a newer, which is not yet ready) and it is incompatible with older versions of UD3-node!!!!!!!!
Post by: fnordest on April 20, 2020, 06:09:26 PM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on June 14, 2020, 06:47:06 PM
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3
There are also new binarys:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/tree/master/common/binary/UD3
And I added a little bit of documentation in the Readme.
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/master/README.md
And a small getting started:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/wiki
Post by: Hydron on June 28, 2020, 12:24:17 PM
Will report back results when I get a chance to try the latest version. Thanks for the efforts keeping this updated.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on July 04, 2020, 04:37:32 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RjUm2BB.jpg)
It is 100% compatible with the existing version, but has the power supplies (24V,+-12V and 5V), fiber TX&RX and the LEDs on board, and because of this I gave it the c suffix (for compact). (even if it is 10cm larger in width and height :P)
The PCB ist sized to slide into a cheap extruded aluminium box like this one (the 110mm version):
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32802719197.html (https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32802719197.html)
I also moved the GDT driver to a daughter board, so it can be replaced with a digital isolator board for use with gate driver ICs.
Because of this the FAN power is now only 12V though, to keep the 24V (and when using gate drive ICs also mains) completely isolated from the control logic.
The design files (for altium) are here: https://github.com/TMaxElectronics/UD3c (https://github.com/TMaxElectronics/UD3c) (un-tested at the moment)
If you have the time I'd appreciate any suggestions for improvements. The repo also has a PDF version of the schematic ;)
EDIT: i never ended up using this version, as I got a fully assembled UD3, incase anybody was wondering
Post by: Netzpfuscher on August 30, 2020, 01:23:19 PM
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Arbitrary QCW ramps:
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Configurable telemetry during runtime:
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Post by: TMaxElectronics on October 30, 2020, 11:02:29 PM
All it does for now is forward MIN frames between UD3 and the PC over UDP, but since it has an SD card slot there is the potential for more (like loading UD3 parameters from the card for example). That is still a work in progress though. It also supports DHCP and automatic network discovery (though the last one isn't in TT yet).
I've tested the adapter under the big SKM600 coil Netzpfuscher posted here a while back, and communications seem even a little more reliable than the serial over fiber connection that that coil uses, though further testing is required to see if it can actually perform that well in use.
Interestingly enough the finished module has a comparable component cost to ONE HFBR optical transmitter, so I would consider this to be a viable replacement for those (fibernet is ~20€ + 5€ for the SFP modules and 30€ for the media converter = 55€ as opposed to 4x17€ for the HFBR series). The module also fits onto the UD3 nicely:
(https://i.imgur.com/KuOkrc5.jpg)
I'm also currently working on a new coil using SKM400 bricks from Netzpfuscher, and since we all live close enough together there is a good chance that Netzpfuschers new coil, mine and the big one I mentioned earlier will be run next to each other if we can find the space at the HV lab :P Here's how my new bridge looks at the moment. Can't wait to try it out :D
(https://i.imgur.com/LGaknoC.jpg)
Post by: Intra on November 05, 2020, 05:54:32 PM
I fixed some small bugs, and a big bug (lead time has no effect, I don't know since when, but the bug is very old):
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3
There are also new binarys:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/tree/master/common/binary/UD3
And I added a little bit of documentation in the Readme.
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/master/README.md
And a small getting started:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/wiki
Looks like lead time still have no effect. I flashed a TTerm branch from last of Nov 4, 2020 commit of UD3 rep. Teslaterm is from malte0811's Oct 25, 2020 last commit of electron-ts branch.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 05, 2020, 08:02:01 PM
Can you give me little more information of your setup? Which UD3 devkit or real?
Have you tuned the start oscillator? It looks like your coil switches way to early.
As a hint a lead_time of 1000ns was sufficient for my SKM600 @ 53kHz.
Slow IGBTs can be in the order of 2000ns
Post by: Intra on November 06, 2020, 01:17:09 AM
Fsec is about 310kHz, Fpri is 250kHz but freq of starting oscillator set on 310kHz and I gave it 20 cycles.
My idea is to drive coil at upper pole while primary will be at lower pole so when energy transfers and Fsec drops coil can be more in resonance and can easier transfer more energy.
With tune prim command I got 33kHz Fres and that looks like another bug in circumstance of 250-311kHz distance because I put final geometry in JavaTC to check up before power on.
Primary CT is 1:22:22, Bridge on FGH60N60SMD, K15U 6.8nF 10kv MMC, almost half-donut primary, k=0.45, PEH200 6mF 450V bus cap.
A couple of photos attached.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 06, 2020, 09:21:54 PM
You need to set the resonance frequency very close in the start_freq. 310kHz vs. 250kHz is far away. Perhaps your secondary is not at 310kHz so it doesn't suck energy out of the primary. I have no deep knowledge in QCW and I have no small coil to test the QCW stuff.
A good start is a static load test with scrap metal in the primary. Set it all up and check if everything is working.
Perhaps tomorrow I can make measurements if everything is correct. But I haven't touched the essential code for this after I find the lead_time bug.
Post by: Intra on November 07, 2020, 03:38:52 AM
The problem was in bad solder connection between GDT and emitter of one of IGBT.
Found this solder problem only when check GDT outs separately and without connecting negative probe connector. One IGBT opens not at full voltage and become opens at full voltage only when I grab IGBT emitter's wire by negative probe connector instead of grabbing emitter-side TVS leg.
Never seen that problem on scope before, especially with that kind of driver. The ugly shots of collector-emitters attached. ;)
Post by: Intra on November 07, 2020, 03:40:48 AM
In UD2.7, when you compensate the phases, your signals start slide to right or left and you see how it is going and where is the end of tuning.
In UD3 I not found that behavior and found that even you set a Fres right but lead time was not set right, your feedback will be dance and glitch and energy won't be well transfered in secondary. Or I am wrong and misunderstood what I saw. Anyway.
After setting lead time, which was 310nS, my scope helped me see that feedback determine my Fpri as 235kHz (not tune prim, it's still 33.6kHz and plot is just all empty), Fsec is 309kHz, and with Fres=235kHz transient mode started brilliantly even with 309kHz secondary. Tank current starts grow as usual and with 400uS on 27vdc on bus the terminal starts crackled a little. As my k~=0.45, I afraid to see what streamer I could got with 1.5:1 secondary even on 310vdc and besides, when Fres=Fpri with that far Fsec, so I moved to testing a phase-shift.
Post by: Intra on November 07, 2020, 03:41:58 AM
0, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 20 start cycles do not make sifnificant changes between themselves.
Looks like it's time to move on 310vdc or give a try to figure out why Teslaterm not shows data from my Hall sensor. I so hope my plastic primary isolation and supports will not melted in first minute of full power.
Post by: Intra on November 08, 2020, 07:12:07 PM
I saw that you are using the sensor LEM LF 306-S if I identified it correctly on photo. I bought one LF 306-S to check DC current sensing and power showing features but I found that someting wrong because Teslaterm always shows 0 amps.
From https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3_PCB schematics R30 seems to be the sensor's measuring resistor, which marked in schematic as 470 ohm but in LF 306-S datasheet I found that with +\-12V sensor supply for measure range of +\-300A measuring resistor should be 37 ohm.
Will it help to change 470 ohm resistor to 37 ohm if I use LF 306-S with +\-12V supply? How much ohm for R30 do you use with yours LF 306-S?
Besides, I found ratio 1:2000 in LF 306-S datasheet but schematic's note says ratio should be 1:1000. If I change ct2_ratio to 2000 will it helps? Your Teslaterm's ct2_ratio is 2000 with your LF 306-S?
Thanks
Post by: TMaxElectronics on November 08, 2020, 07:49:13 PM
R48 has a suggested value of 49.9ohms, but can be adjusted to match what is required by the sensor.
Having a wrong value here would only result in a wrong reading though, and not in the UD3 always showing zero current.
Have you measured the output current from it with a multimeter without connecting it to the driver to make sure it actually works?
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 08, 2020, 10:10:13 PM
50 Ohm shunt is good. And your LEM has 1:2000. But your coil is not a multi kW coil ^^ You simply make more turns through the CT to reduce the ratio ;) But you need to set the ratio that the current spikes are in the measurement range so that the RMS calculation works. With a 50 Ohm and 1:1000 you can measure 100A.
If you see always zero, it can be possible that the voltage of the CT goes negative because the current flows in the wrong direction.
You can test the CT if you wind like 10 times through the core and give it 1A, then you should see 10A in Teslaterm.
Post by: Intra on November 11, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
Next problem I found is in EMI I suppose.
As driver communicates with PC via UART on top of USB and while bad input signal can't directly open IGBT for a long time with way that was in UD2.7, I decided to check up is any needs to do specially an opto communication instead of just USB cable and a couple of ferrite EMI chokes. And, driver seems to be get the EMI because Teslaterm shows lost connection message any time I trying to start qcw or transient mode.
I saw your commit about external interrupter. The record said is in WIP status. I did the test-circuit to check up can it works and maybe it still WIP or I just did something wrong but it isn't worked for me. I tried a part of Steve's External trig circuit from his origin schematic of UD3, and plug it in port which was marked as for external interrupter in PSoC Creator's UD3 project, and also I tries to set 1 or 2 in ext interrupter row in Teslaterm's settings, but pushing the button nothing done. Is ext.trig is still WIP?
Post by: TMaxElectronics on November 12, 2020, 12:51:45 AM
The ext. interrupter input was a quick addition so I can test the MidiSticks on my new coil, but neither Netzpfuscher nor me had time to test it so far, thats why its still WIP at the moment ;)
Post by: Intra on November 12, 2020, 01:31:30 AM
Post by: Intra on November 12, 2020, 01:42:05 AM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 12, 2020, 09:51:04 AM
You need a isolation for the PC, it is essential. The USB on the UD3 was only intended for "offline" configuration.
Post by: Intra on November 18, 2020, 04:45:27 PM
I got a two problems next.
First is a strikes in primary from toroid's edge what I suppose I can handle with some plexiglass isolation
Second is start cycles seems to be not enough to stable driving. 16 start cycles looks better than 8 and 8 better than 4. May I ask to increase max start cycles from 20 to 999999? I want to try drive a coil from start generator entirely.
Short video of 1mS test. primary strike is on 0:51
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 19, 2020, 06:50:37 AM
But you can do it yourself, don't set values over 254, it is only a 8 bit counter:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/8485ae9c3ac583cc6fc78cb531a84307acef4161/common/ud3core/cli_common.c#L216
Post by: TMaxElectronics on November 19, 2020, 11:52:28 PM
Setting it up was so much easier than with more basic drivers too.
Just hook up the primary and run the autotune to see if it is tuned right, and that's it :D
No messing around with an oscilloscope, the feedback polarity, or tweaking potis to get the lead time correct. Just type in the numbers and the coil works, pretty awesome to be honest.
Post by: Intra on November 21, 2020, 12:52:35 PM
I won't change the max start cycles. There must be something wrong with your coil. You know that your coil is hard switching during startup? ;)
But you can do it yourself, don't set values over 254, it is only a 8 bit counter:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/8485ae9c3ac583cc6fc78cb531a84307acef4161/common/ud3core/cli_common.c#L216
Thanks! Yes, you were right. Something was wrong with a coil. After deep analysis I found that my flashovers from previous test some way burnt sensor's comparator or +\-12v supply driver chain. After I cut out all peripheral driver part the signal became looking good.
Anyway, I choosed secondary and primary inductors for mmc I have and looks like the impedances is not matched good. Result of 20mS under 60A current limit is about 10-15cm spark.
Nevertheless I want to try to oscilate whole coil on start freq because I see the coil grab a feedback and sometimes jump between poles and I do not see another way besides to force a coil to sometimes hardswitch through the whole freq sweeping down under spark loading so please if you can change the start cycles counter to 16 or 32 bit I will be very appreciated.
Post by: Hydron on November 21, 2020, 06:22:26 PM
Post by: Intra on November 21, 2020, 06:48:00 PM
Netzpfuscher pointed at the place where the range can be changed - treat it as an opportunity to learn how to modify and compile the code (PSoC creator is freely available from Cypress semi).
My apologies.
Post by: Intra on December 04, 2020, 08:03:04 PM
Post by: pc50kd on January 23, 2021, 02:35:18 PM
The coil worked great except for the lead time compensation.
Recently I saw that the bug concerning the lead time compensation was fixed. So I updated my UD3 to the latest firmware.
After doing this the UD3 only communicates over the onboard USB connection. On the RX and TX pins for the UART connections I get no data at all.
I tried enabling and disabling the min protocol and various other settings but this made no difference. The board only communicates on 480600 baud with plain UART over the onboard USB connection.
Am I missing a new setting in the firmware or is there something else I might be doing wrong?
If someone could point me in the right direction it would be greatly appreciated.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on January 24, 2021, 10:13:16 PM
Post by: acobaugh on January 25, 2021, 07:33:26 AM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on January 25, 2021, 01:42:42 PM
There is at least a board importer in Kicad which on the first look works great.
Post by: acobaugh on February 08, 2021, 07:32:55 AM
What capacitors are we using for C1, C2, C36, C43, C46? The BOM just says "electrolytic capacitor."
What SFP modules are we using with the fibernet board? It looks like the lan9250 supports 100base-fx. Is it sensitive to vendors at all, or will just about any 100base-fx sfp module work? What are folks doing on the other end to hook up to a PC, just a media converter? Ethernet switch? Is the wire protocol used with the fibernet documented anywhere? Just curious.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on February 08, 2021, 01:41:07 PM
The others side just goes into a 100Base-Fx media converter, the fibernet supports DHCP and will get itself a unique Mac address from the ID bytes in the UD3.
The protocol used is MIN, but with some slight modifications. It transmits individual packets, which are converted into UDP. All data coming in on port 1337 is forwarded to the UD3 and all data it sends back gets sent to the last client that sent data to 1337.
There isn't really much more documentation about the thing at the moment...
The PCBs should be the most recent revision, I've ordered some of them from JLC and they came out fine, except for the little TC pcb art on the left having some weird rings over it. Shouldn't affect functionality though.
I can check those caps later.
Post by: VEKTOR on February 10, 2021, 09:22:59 PM
The PCBs should be the most recent revision, I've ordered some of them from JLC and they came out fine, except for the little TC pcb art on the left having some weird rings over it. Shouldn't affect functionality though.I did the same as acobaugh, installed altium viewer, generated gerber files and quoted them at JLCPCB.
At least the online PCB viewer knows how to handle this files, so they shot be correct enough, i guess :-\
BUT now comes the trap for young players (or maybe not), this files contain two different designs! The main driver board an the 4 gate PCBs.
So, when I understood this page correctly
https://jlcpcb.com//quote/pcbOrderFaq/Different%20Design%20in%20Panel?_ga=2.186550766.618861736.1612917287-1327371747.1609403369 (https://jlcpcb.com//quote/pcbOrderFaq/Different%20Design%20in%20Panel?_ga=2.186550766.618861736.1612917287-1327371747.1609403369)
they'll charge you extra for this, to be precise the price jumps from 2$ to 12.10$...
I would pay that but it's contra intuitive, to squeeze everything into 10x10cm and then have to pay much more compered to quoting two different PCBs, that would cost only 4$.
I guess you just made a quote for a single design (2$) and hoped that it slips through?
Post by: Hydron on February 10, 2021, 10:52:30 PM
I personally wouldn't complain too much about the JLC policy - they do actually tell you how to be a cheapskate at the bottom of the page!
Post by: acobaugh on February 11, 2021, 04:37:35 AM
JLC usually has some sort of deal for new users or new designs. I've been happy with them. And consider not too long ago we were still having to pay a premium for PCBs or etch them ourselves.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on February 11, 2021, 10:23:39 AM
Quote
I can share the gerber files for that if you're interested.Sure contributions are always welcome :)
I think it would work best if you created a fork of the repo and added your files to a new branch, then people can just download that if they need it. (or you could just send them to me and I'll add then if you want :D)
Post by: AeraCura_ on March 03, 2021, 11:15:32 PM
Quote
I can share the gerber files for that if you're interested.
Wherever you decide to put the files let me know.
Post by: acobaugh on March 09, 2021, 05:46:17 AM
As far as gerber files - I can issue a PR if that would be helpful. That being said, I found about a dozen or so pads that weren't labeled in the silkscreen layer, so I had to go back and forth with Altium with a Viewer license to locate the right parts. If I had caught this sooner, I would have fixed it before my trial license expired. Sigh.
What I would like to do long term is put together a place with links to the different projects, guides, assembly/testing instructions, errata, etc. Preferably something collaborative. I'm tempted to just throw a page up on my personal site, which is done in markdown (using Hugo) and versioned on github. I'd happily accept PRs. Maybe I'll just do this on my own and see how far I get with creating actual content.
Post by: acobaugh on March 31, 2021, 11:05:34 PM
* baudrate = 460800 for all tests
* ivo_uart doesn't seem to make any difference (that I could see)
* physically swapping RX/TX definitely has an effect. One way (RX->TX, TX->RX) causes the COMM light to blink when I type, the other way nothing happens
* min_enable = 1 causes garbage characters to be printed to the terminal every 1s, along with "min reset" alarms logged every 1s
* when typing in the terminal, I can see the COMM light blink.
* I get garbage characters at startup, and sometimes if I type fast enough I can get garbage characters back
* Teslaterm is unable to connect no matter what I try - plain serial or min serial
* USB CLI works just fine
All of these tests were done with both GNU screen, minicom, and the latest teslaterm with identical results.
This is with 54449c1728419ab4e3e3023d3c90874c25ec97e1 from master.
What I observed with the fibernet is this:
* with the firmware located here (https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/master/common/binary/UARTldr/CY8C5868AXI-LP032.hex), the UD3 would boot, fibernet LED would be red. Right after boot, fibernet LED would go solid green
* after updating to (54449c1728419ab4e3e3023d3c90874c25ec97e1), fibernet LED would stay solid red
So, I'm at a loss. I don't do embedded systems, so I don't have much troubleshooting experience beyond the basics. Oh, and I killed my programmer over the weekend, so I need to wait for another devkit to show up
Post by: Netzpfuscher on April 01, 2021, 09:10:08 AM
- ivo_uart needs to be set to 0
- RX-TX is swapped in the revision you tested (I forget to change this back, the first fibernet revision had false pinout) I fixed it: 5e215fe77a72e46d5eb83f55406cefff23c0661f
- min_enable needs to be set at 1... Then saved with eeprom save... then restart with reset... The "garbage" are binary min frames. The 1s min reset is correct until a client is connected
- blink of the com light is good
- with min_enable = 1 the "garbage" is a "hello computer I'm a starting UD3" frame ;)
- Teslaterm with a serial cable should connect with "min" and baudrate 460800 and the correct COM port
- USB-CLI is exactly for that reason, if the serial parameters are fucked up to configure the UD3
Quote
* with the firmware located here (https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/master/common/binary/UARTldr/CY8C5868AXI-LP032.hex), the UD3 would boot, fibernet LED would be red. Right after boot, fibernet LED would go solid green
This is only a bootloader. I think I can compile you a actual complete binary and put it on the git release page today.
Quote
Oh, and I killed my programmer over the weekend, so I need to wait for another devkit to show upIf the bootloader is still on the board it can be recovered. I take a look if the bootloader pinout is correct. The binary is 13 months old, perhaps it is also from the pre fibernet time. But for updating the bootloader you need a programmer.
If you still have problems, I'm shure we can solve that over Zoom or Teams ;)
Edit (new binarys):
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/releases/tag/2.1.0
Post by: acobaugh on April 02, 2021, 08:03:40 PM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on April 02, 2021, 10:18:24 PM
With fibernet... You have a DHCP running? We have a fallback to a static IP but it can take some time.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on April 03, 2021, 01:41:31 AM
If the red LED goes out it means it got its setup data, once the blue LED is on it got an IP from the DHCP server. whenever there's comms with the UD3 it will flash the green LED and network stuff should flash the blue one if I remember correctly.
It also has the segger find protocol implemented so you can get its IP without needing to do a scan. The client is on this website (teslaterm has one built in too if you go to the IP box of the connect dialog, delete everything and press arrow down on your keyboard) https://www.segger.com/products/connectivity/emnet/technology/find-protocol/ (https://www.segger.com/products/connectivity/emnet/technology/find-protocol/)
Did you check the alarms on the UD3 with the cli on the USB port? The fibernet pushes some initialisation messages there
Post by: acobaugh on April 03, 2021, 02:48:13 AM
I guess that explains all the unusual behavior I've been seeing!
Next issue: my local dhcp server made a DHCPOFFER of 192.168.0.199, but the fibernet configured itself with 192.168.0.100. There was no DHCPACK. I can use .100 to talk to it just fine, so I can carry on with my testing. Maybe there's something it doesn't like about the response from dnsmaq?
Post by: Netzpfuscher on April 03, 2021, 08:04:49 AM
The IP problem...
You can logon to the fibernet through the UD3. Just type "debug fn", then you get the CLI in the fibernet. To exit just press CTRL+C, to exit top or iotop in the fibernet just press "q".
"ifconfig" gives you some ip infos or let you set a ip (You loose connection with setting the IP over a IP connection ;) ) If you connect over USB to the UD3 you can see the DHCP messages from the fibernet without the problem of loosing the connection.
The ifconfig settings are not saved yet. I think we can make a config file on the SD card later.
Post by: Kevindk9 on October 21, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
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Anyway very long story short I got the driver working! I am unsure if i am using it right though, there is not much documentation for the interface.
There was also a lot of timing warnings when i built and programmed the board. Do i need an external crystal for this board? I also moved the gate drive pins around to fit the dev board layout. And is the correct order to build the "UARTldr_QFN", then program the board, then build the "UD3_QFN" and program the board?
[ Invalid Attachment ]
As you can see in the photo im using a USB to TTL converter to connect to my laptop. I see the default baud rate set to 460800 but it looks like my computers USB can output a max of 128000. Do I change it in the PSoC creator to match my USB port?
I connect to Teslaterm in serial(simple) with 460800 baud, then change it to serial(MIN). I connect my coil with a low voltage on the bus and type in "Tune Prim" to run the tuning and get the suggested resonant frequency. I then change the start frequency to that frequency with 3 start cycles. I turn "TR mode on" and adjust the on time and frequency which works fine. But when I try to play MIDI files it sounds bad and a lot of files that work on other members coils don't sound right.
As im typing this i realize that it might be the UVLO triggering, im powering it at 17v because the on board regulators get way too hot at 24v im afraid they will die. Could this be the problem, or is it a serial issue, or a problem with the midi files? But i see in PSoC creator the UVLO doesn't have anything there so maybe thats not it.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
Also what's the difference between UD3 node and Teslaterm? What is UD3 node for? only if you want to connect over ethernet? Do i need it to play SID music files? When i try running UD3-node.exe from https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm/releases/tag/v0.0.2 (https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm/releases/tag/v0.0.2) i get this error message.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
I also see this version of UD3 node from https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3-node but i don't know what to do with those files, so i will stick with using Teslaterm on malte0811's github.
Sorry for all the questions and for rambling on, I want to get everything working and make sure im doing it right so i can write step by step instructions instructions for the wiki how to get it to work.
Post by: Intra on October 21, 2021, 01:27:29 PM
There was also a lot of timing warnings when i built and programmed the board.Not sure you can ignore this exactly warnings but I got a bunch warning with my setup and seems to it's okay. Try to skip it.
Do i need an external crystal for this board?No.
Is the correct order to build the "UARTldr_QFN", then program the board, then build the "UD3_QFN" and program the board?Yes. I built all then from PSoC Programmer upload "UARTldr_QFN" then upload "UD3_QFN".
As you can see in the photo im using a USB to TTL converter to connect to my laptop. I see the default baud rate set to 460800 but it looks like my computers USB can output a max of 128000. Do I change it in the PSoC creator to match my USB port?Not sure I'm right person to answer on that, but I bet for no. What laptop model do you use?
im powering it at 17v because the on board regulators get way too hot at 24v im afraid they will die. Could this be the problemYes. You should use 24v and some way cold down your board regulators or use another way to deliver regulated power to board. SMD regulators on high load without decent cooling system is in risk of overheating and damaging. For SMD there is a special boards classified as "one-sided aluminum PCB", which capable to be screwed up to heatsink it's aluminium side and pass heat to heatsink through the board's holes under component if maked, but this profdc9's SMD version did not made for that boards. So regulators and if will be high load on gate transistor then the gate transistors too should not be in SMD and should be in TO-220 or something and should be screwed up on decent size heatsinks through aluminium nitride ceramic substrate with Arctic MX-5 or another.
Do i need it to play SID music files?I used Teslaterm to play SID files. If I remember right then you need drag and drop the SID file to Teslaterm to play it in SID mode and enable SID mode in Teslaterm
When i try running UD3-node.exe from https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm/releases/tag/v0.0.2 (https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm/releases/tag/v0.0.2) i get this error message.Try this build https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pMMMhAq4u94cykIYivyjZuGO93iYG1C2/view
I also see this version of UD3 node from https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3-node but i don't know what to do with those files, so i will stick with using Teslaterm on malte0811's github.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on October 22, 2021, 07:03:26 AM
Anyway very long story short I got the driver working! I am unsure if i am using it right though, there is not much documentation for the interface.
Cool 8)
There was also a lot of timing warnings when i built and programmed the board. Do i need an external crystal for this board? I also moved the gate drive pins around to fit the dev board layout. And is the correct order to build the "UARTldr_QFN", then program the board, then build the "UD3_QFN" and program the board?
Yes, all correct. You don't need a crystal.
As you can see in the photo im using a USB to TTL converter to connect to my laptop. I see the default baud rate set to 460800 but it looks like my computers USB can output a max of 128000. Do I change it in the PSoC creator to match my USB port?
You can change the baudrate with Teslaterm in settings. But 460800 is standard for all UD3 also for the Fibernet, its fast enough. You get no benefit of turning it up.
I connect to Teslaterm in serial(simple) with 460800 baud, then change it to serial(MIN). I connect my coil with a low voltage on the bus and type in "Tune Prim" to run the tuning and get the suggested resonant frequency. I then change the start frequency to that frequency with 3 start cycles. I turn "TR mode on" and adjust the on time and frequency which works fine. But when I try to play MIDI files it sounds bad and a lot of files that work on other members coils don't sound right.
Have you tested with a coil or a speaker on TP6? A speaker will not sound right on current modulation for debugging with a speaker it needs to be set to ontime modulation ("vol_mod"). For the coil, there is another parameter (you also can use ontime modulation on a coil) Whats the maximum current of your coil? There is a min current parameter, it's used for volume modulation "min_tr_current" maybe set it to a lower value. "set min_tr_current 50" It means that a playing note with low volume still produces a output of 50A (for linearization).
As im typing this i realize that it might be the UVLO triggering, im powering it at 17v because the on board regulators get way too hot at 24v im afraid they will die. Could this be the problem, or is it a serial issue, or a problem with the midi files? But i see in PSoC creator the UVLO doesn't have anything there so maybe thats not it.
You cannot set the UVLO in software it is simply a digital pin, you need to modify the external voltage divider. You can check if it was UVLO, with "alarms get" if there is a UVLO event in the alarm monitor or display the signal state with "signals". I bet it is the problem. No one has a problem with MIDI.
Also what's the difference between UD3 node and Teslaterm? What is UD3 node for? only if you want to connect over ethernet? Do i need it to play SID music files? When i try running UD3-node.exe from https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm/releases/tag/v0.0.2 (https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm/releases/tag/v0.0.2) i get this error message.
I also see this version of UD3 node from https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3-node but i don't know what to do with those files, so i will stick with using Teslaterm on malte0811's github.
If you use a new version of Teslaterm and Node... There is no difference in function. The node version is simply for a headless device like a Raspberry in the coil. The UI can then accessed with Chrome from another computer.
Please use only this: https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/Teslaterm/tree/new_versions
Binarys: https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/Teslaterm/actions/runs/1221655930
Other versions are not really supported anymore.
Sorry for all the questions and for rambling on, I want to get everything working and make sure im doing it right so i can write step by step instructions instructions for the wiki how to get it to work.
That would be great :)
Oh and please give me your complete changed pinout, then I put it into github. That makes updates easier. Now I put together the VMS branch, it is a super big improvement over the old MIDI synthesizer. But the master branch is also working. But it doesn't support drums and other instruments in MIDI mode.
If you want to try (I added the pinout of the screenshot):
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/tree/vms_dev
The instrument file (you need actual Teslaterm: https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/Teslaterm/actions/runs/1221655930) just pull the file into the scope on teslaterm to flash it into the UD3:
https://github.com/TMaxElectronics/MidiStick_Firmware/releases/download/V2.0/VMS.example.mcf
If you update the UD3 over psoc creator the instruments are deleted you need to reflash the mcf file. If you update over bootloader it is preserved.
Post by: Kevindk9 on November 16, 2021, 01:16:07 AM
Camels_Run.sid - https://i.imgur.com/tz1zx1n.mp4
Here im trying the QCW function with a 15ms burst - https://i.imgur.com/LzcDnUn.mp4
This is the coil accidently going CW when I issued "set synth 3" - https://i.imgur.com/v4iRskI.mp4
The pinout for the VMS-DEV branch is now correct for the dev board, so you don't need to change anything. And here is a link to the fixed board at EasyEDA with an up to date BOM. https://easyeda.com/editor#id=0fd4d406188442ae8a9967b1bb865cb6|bf5b447561684507937553f8265b6cd4 (https://easyeda.com/editor#id=0fd4d406188442ae8a9967b1bb865cb6|bf5b447561684507937553f8265b6cd4)
I have a few small things im still working on, I want to include an ESP8266 or 32 on the board, i bought some modules but cant figure out how to interface with them. I should choose MIN over UDP, correct? And i shouldn't need to modify any code?
I cant get the pulse width longer than 400us in TR mode. I've tried editing the range in psoc creator, and some of the GUI files for TeslaTerm, nothing seems to work and i don't know where to look. Another suggestion i have is a "one shot" button for TR and QCW mode.
And finally, for tuning, I run "tune_Prim" and i get a graph. Say my secondary resonance is 55khz, I should try to get my primary resonance in the graph at ~50khz? Then have the auto tune start at 56khz?
Thanks again!
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 16, 2021, 07:09:35 AM
Camels_Run.sid - https://i.imgur.com/tz1zx1n.mp4
Here im trying the QCW function with a 15ms burst - https://i.imgur.com/LzcDnUn.mp4
Cool, good progress
This is the coil accidently going CW when I issued "set synth 3" - https://i.imgur.com/v4iRskI.mp4
Oh, yes there was something. Check the newest commit (I also switched VMS_Dev to master) I disabled QCW synth for now. With the VMS it was intended to make the QCW MIDI synth also block based configurable but I had not time to do it yet. So I disabled the QCW synth for safety reasons now.
I have a few small things im still working on, I want to include an ESP8266 or 32 on the board, i bought some modules but cant figure out how to interface with them. I should choose MIN over UDP, correct? And i shouldn't need to modify any code?
Not right... The ESP32 project is obsolete and not working anymore. https://github.com/TMaxElectronics/UD3-Fibernet-Firmware <--Essentially we need to port this or port it in parts. MIN UDP is very simple, you get a UDP packet from teslaterm and you can put it 1:1 to the UART on the ESP. For receiving you need to implement parts of the MIN UART receive function to detect frame start and end (you can take a look at the fibernet code) und put a MIN frame 1:1 in a UDP packet and send it to Teslaterm.
I cant get the pulse width longer than 400us in TR mode. I've tried editing the range in psoc creator, and some of the GUI files for TeslaTerm, nothing seems to work and i don't know where to look. Another suggestion i have is a "one shot" button for TR and QCW mode.
The 400us is only a limit in Teslaterm. The UD3 allows 10000us have you set "max_tr_pw" also to a higher value? For the Teslaterm slider I need to take a look in the code. As workaround you can set a higher pw directly in the console with "set pw 1000" or so
And finally, for tuning, I run "tune_Prim" and i get a graph. Say my secondary resonance is 55khz, I should try to get my primary resonance in the graph at ~50khz? Then have the auto tune start at 56khz?If you run tune prim you get the primary resonance frequency. For best results you should remove the secondary and make a run at low voltage (like 60V or so) to change the frequency you only can change the tap on the primary. There is no way to change the frequency in software.
Post by: dbach on November 21, 2021, 06:16:06 PM
Quote
The UD3s are playing the frames by the timecode. To get it over multiple control computers working the master sends his time to all slaves every 500ms. The slaves are calculating a offset (which get smoothed to get rid of latency jitter) to their time and are sending the corrected time to their UD3 which is syncing to this time (the master time). I need to measure the timing differences but it sounds good.
I had some confusion over this, is there one master computer using the others as slaves, and then each slave is paired with a ud3? Or is one computer with a master ud3 using the others as salves (with the other computers being used as aux USB ports?)
Thanks so much! The ud3 looks amazing
Post by: Intra on November 24, 2021, 02:32:28 PM
With the VMS it was intended to make the QCW MIDI synth also block based configurable but I had not time to do it yet. So I disabled the QCW synth for safety reasons now.Which commit is last safe for using QCW synth? This one? https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commit/cd4d18a4d5818ee01e0f0742d89642772fda708a
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 25, 2021, 07:09:29 AM
Hello,QuoteThe UD3s are playing the frames by the timecode. To get it over multiple control computers working the master sends his time to all slaves every 500ms. The slaves are calculating a offset (which get smoothed to get rid of latency jitter) to their time and are sending the corrected time to their UD3 which is syncing to this time (the master time). I need to measure the timing differences but it sounds good.
I had some confusion over this, is there one master computer using the others as slaves, and then each slave is paired with a ud3? Or is one computer with a master ud3 using the others as salves (with the other computers being used as aux USB ports?)
Thanks so much! The ud3 looks amazing
Problem is, that I hadn't time to implement it in the new Teslaterm version.
-One UD3 is connected to one instance of Teslaterm it syncs its time with a PLL to the computer time
-One Master Teslaterm syncs the time to all slave Teslaterms
-The Master Teslaterm plays the SID and taggs the frames with time and transmit it to slaves.
Quote
Which commit is last safe for using QCW synth? This one? https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commit/cd4d18a4d5818ee01e0f0742d89642772fda708a
Seems so. All before VMS I think.
Post by: Intra on November 26, 2021, 03:52:08 PM
QuoteWhich commit is last safe for using QCW synth? This one? https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commit/cd4d18a4d5818ee01e0f0742d89642772fda708a
Seems so. All before VMS I think.
Wouldn't it be inconvenient if I bother you to help with build errors for a QFN project from a commit https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commit/cd4d18a4d5818ee01e0f0742d89642772fda708a ?
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Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 29, 2021, 12:15:12 PM
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commits/intra
Post by: Intra on November 29, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
Here you go:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commits/intra
*0*
Thank you!
Post by: Kevindk9 on February 15, 2022, 11:54:02 PM
Im controlling the UD3 with a HC-06 bluetooth module which acts like a serial com port. I would like to keep the whole thing wireless if its possible.
Also, I have a few suggestions for features that could be added to the Teslaterm app. It would be nice to have the lead time as an adjustable slider to make tuning faster. Im getting a random bug where changing the lead time will stop transient mode from working when you try starting it again. "reset" fixes the problem but it seems to be a 1 in 5 chance it happens when I change the lead time.
It would also be nice to have a "one shot" button, a tr/qcw mode switch, and a start/stop button instead of a dropdown menu.
Is there a way to change the scale of the telemetry readout? I have my maximum current set to 300a, but the graph seems to default to 327a/division.
I've tried to make some changes to the teslaterm source code but I'm not quite sure how to compile it.
Post by: zix on February 17, 2022, 01:34:51 AM
Im getting a random bug where changing the lead time will stop transient mode from working when you try starting it again. "reset" fixes the problem but it seems to be a 1 in 5 chance it happens when I change the lead time.
I've seen the same thing. I think it is because there is a resource leak in initialize_interrupter() which gets called when lead_time is changed. After about 5 times the system runs out of dma descriptors and some of the dma channels become disabled which stops the interrupter. I fixed it in my own copy and it is working for me. If Netzpfuscher agrees I will make a pull request for my changes.
Post by: Netzpfuscher on February 17, 2022, 07:18:09 AM
Quote
I would like to play music on them both at the same time, but im having a hard time figuring out how to do that.Teslaterm makes a MIDI RTP server. Here is a Windows client: https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/rtpmidi.html
You need to start multiple instances of Teslaterm (I remember you need to copy Teslaterm to a second folder or use a second computer) Then put them all into one MIDI RTP session. With the filter string in the UD3 you can set the channels and frequency you want to play on that coil.
Quote
I've tried to make some changes to the teslaterm source code but I'm not quite sure how to compile it.You can execute it directly with electron no need to compile. Sadly our build system in github is broken because of some packages missing.
To start if you have npm:
npm run-script install-electron
npm run-script start-electron
For the headless version (with webserver):
npm run-script install-node
npm run-script start-node
Quote
Is there a way to change the scale of the telemetry readout? I have my maximum current set to 300a, but the graph seems to default to 327a/division.It's calculated with max measurable current... The values are not in Teslaterm, the UD3 say Teslaterm how to configure every chart and gauge. So needs changes in the UD3... Please show what you mean, I'm not 100% sure.
Post by: zix on March 08, 2022, 12:47:38 AM
Post by: Hydron on March 16, 2022, 12:11:43 PM
Will report back on how it goes - last time I used it with this coil was 2019 and it was a bit of a rush and without any case etc, plus lead-time was broken at that point (I still can't quite figure out how that part works other than the initial value offsetting the expected first period loaded into the PWM generator).
Am having to use serial-over-fibre control at this point as I don't have a fibrenet board built into this - it does actually have an ESP32 module inside (and an RF window on the end-plate for it) but apparently this is currently not working? I'll have a look at the ESP32 code but SW is not my strong suit sadly. The ESP32 is certainly the cheapest way to get galvanically isolated comms!
Post by: zix on March 16, 2022, 05:00:32 PM
BTW, we updated the documentation on the UD3 Wiki. See https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/wiki
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 16, 2022, 08:10:21 PM
The ESP32 project is not working anymore. Since then we changed so many things, we needed to include a timecode in the frames and changed the packet sequence number from 8 to 32 bit. But with the Fibernet we simplified the network code. It's as simple a encapsulating the protocol frames into a UDP packet. I think I can port it to the ESP32 in short time, but need to find a bit of time to do it.
Post by: Hydron on March 17, 2022, 01:46:39 AM
Looking through the info, I have a couple of questions about the Vsense/Isense connections:
- when using the "battery voltage" connection to look at mains voltage, other than a bridge rectifier does this need a capacitor to smooth out the resulting 100/120Hz signal, or is this filtered out in SW?
- where should the DC current sensor be placed? between the mains rectifier and the big bus capacitors, or between these capacitors and the rest of the bridge?
Post by: Netzpfuscher on March 17, 2022, 08:32:28 AM
The DC current sensor needs to be between rectifier and bus capacitor.
Edit:
Added RMS for the voltage. So theoretically no capacitor necessary.
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/commit/a4ba5f52c30d6a502a41842188e9969980612b06
Post by: TMaxElectronics on June 26, 2022, 05:59:04 PM
We had some issues with the synth filter though, so both small coils play the same tunes, we initially planned to split the notes between the three coils we had, with the other problem being a slight... lets just say "issue" with the third, 3.5m coil :P
Post by: futurist on June 27, 2022, 06:14:48 PM
Post by: Mads Barnkob on June 27, 2022, 09:10:43 PM
The IGBT explosion, might deserve its own thread about the coil in question? Certainly must be a driver issue or pounding it too hard? Water cooling and everything and you still manage to blow of EVERY single die, that is impressive in itself!
Post by: TMaxElectronics on June 28, 2022, 07:38:02 PM
Quote
Magic smoke caught in IGBT goop :(Hmm maybe we could pump it back in :P
Quote
The IGBT explosion, might deserve its own thread about the coil in question?
The big coil is from the guy that works at the HV Lab we test our coils at, not mine so idk if I'm qualified to make a post about it. I only helped installing and setting up the UD3 :D
I suspect the problem that killed the IGBTs was just poor HF earth routing. We tested it inside for a long time and had no problems, but we had a very good earth there. When we went to the museum we only earthed the coil with quite a long cable, which caused the UD3 to crash and reset everytime we had a groundstrike and ultimately die (we had to replace the psoc for it on site ::) ). After that the resonant circuit struggled to even reach 1000A in 400us (whereas it easily went to 2000A in half that time before), so something was likely already damaged by that point. Interestingly enough we didn't see excessive heat dissipation in the bridge, which makes me suspect an issue with switch timing but thats just a gut feeling. We didn't have the equipment there to verify everything and just risked a full power run... which didn't go well :P I wasn't at the controls at the time but I feel like the bang happened almost immediately after we started a song too, when the IGBTs were still cold.
The current limit was set at 1500A with the current peaking at a little under 2000A which is actually within the datasheet ratings of the IGBTs :o
We used two of those: https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-FS450R17OE4-DS-v03_00-EN.pdf?fileId=db3a304336797ff90136c09b45906f3b
all three half bridges in each module were paralleled so I wouldn't be too sure about current balancing and thus the actual maximum current rating in that configuration, but I'm almost certain that the current we drove wasn't pushing the IGBTs.
Post by: pache11 on August 30, 2022, 11:51:11 PM
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2022, 02:26:43 AM
Quote
Anyone have any CY8CKIT-059? Looks to be about as rare as hen's teeth now.You can get them from AliExpress, but the price is eye-watering. There's also the "legitimacy" question. I'd expect at least the PSOC itself is probably genuine, even if it's recycled and soldered on a new board.
So far as the more traditional distributors, it's not looking good for the next 12 months at least.
Post by: Mads Barnkob on August 31, 2022, 08:47:05 AM
QuoteAnyone have any CY8CKIT-059? Looks to be about as rare as hen's teeth now.You can get them from AliExpress, but the price is eye-watering. There's also the "legitimacy" question. I'd expect at least the PSOC itself is probably genuine, even if it's recycled and soldered on a new board.
So far as the more traditional distributors, it's not looking good for the next 12 months at least.
Is there a thing as virtual ICs? Like there is Virtual machines for computers. As times are right now, very few designs can be replicated by others or even by yourself a couple of years later :(
Post by: dbach on August 31, 2022, 05:15:08 PM
I have quite a few Psoc 5 dev boards that im not using (3 or 4 of them)
happy to sell them to someone here.
Post by: pache11 on August 31, 2022, 07:00:41 PM
Post by: dannybeckett on February 19, 2023, 11:36:48 PM
Second, does the UD3 support freewheeling mode?
example:
http://classictesla.com/pslawinski/udplus.html (http://classictesla.com/pslawinski/udplus.html)
**post edited for clarity**
Post by: Max on February 20, 2023, 09:52:47 AM
Second, does this driver support freewheeling mode?
http://classictesla.com/pslawinski/udplus.html (http://classictesla.com/pslawinski/udplus.html)
I am a bit confused about this question. The page title literally is "UD+ (UD Plus) Freewheeling DRSSTC Driver"; the first half of the page is pretty much just about the freewheeling functionality.
So yes, it does indeed support freewheeling. If it helps, I can also confirm that the claims are true. I got a UD+ in my DRSSTC and indeed it does what the page says it would do.
Kind regards,
Max
Post by: malte0811 on February 20, 2023, 09:57:54 AM
Post by: Max on February 20, 2023, 11:24:00 AM
Kind regards,
Max
Post by: dannybeckett on February 20, 2023, 11:26:37 AM
Great to know that it freewheels in this situation :) This controller appears to have every single use-case covered! I'll look forward to constructing and playing with it.
Dan
Post by: dannybeckett on March 12, 2023, 06:45:50 PM
Post by: Hydron on March 12, 2023, 07:52:30 PM
Post by: Hydron on April 10, 2023, 12:16:00 AM
Code: [Select]
qcw_reg = 1; after line 271 (https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/master/common/ud3core/qcw.c#L271) in qcw.c, otherwise the handler that checks when the QCW pulse should finish is never called.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on May 05, 2023, 05:28:18 PM
- LED outputs are now open drain, allowing use of 24V indicators
- Voltage sense amplifiers moved to single 5V rail
- Updated gate drive structure to allow more wide range of N&P Fet combo packages
- Added protection resistors to Relay and LED pins, added protections resistors in series with mosfet gates
- Added buck regulator for VDrive, adjustable between 10V-24V
- Added more indicator LEDs for debug purposes
- Added supply voltages to more expansion headers, external gate header can now directly support 24V gate driver modules
- The Design can now be almost entirely built with the JLC assmebly service. Only the psoc needs to be hand soldered
- Schematic cleanup... its now on more pages but each one is smaller :D
I Think the biggest change is the fact that it has now been optimized for jlc pcb assembly. Especially since the board got quite crowded since the last version :o
(https://i.imgur.com/MsuHo10.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/d3ros5r.jpg)
I still need to do the silkscreen layout, then I'll be ordering a first batch of test boards.
Here's the link to the github repo if anybody is interested: https://github.com/TMaxElectronics
Post by: Hydron on May 05, 2023, 08:28:30 PM
The thing I'm most interested in is the GDT mosfets and their drive circuit:
- is there a preferred output P+N-ch mosfet you're aiming at and have tested? I've got some AOD609s and the good old FDD8424Hs, but those aren't always easy to find, and the power-SO-8 package style you're using here seems more standardised. I might see if I can hack a footprint up enough to allow compatibility with the SO-8 as well as the TO-252 styles in my design.
- What sort of gate threshold variation do you think requires the passive deadtime network? I'm assuming that gate charge variation between P and N could also have an effect too if the difference is large enough? I must admit that I haven't looked much at this part of the gate drive circuit, as with the FDD8424Hs it's basically just always seemed to work OK - my measurements and simulation have mostly been of the GDT itself and the IGBT drive network.
- Have you noticed any performance differences with 5V vs higher (e.g. 12V) UCC drive IC voltage? It's certainly a bit lower power (and easier, given 5V is already needed) to just run it on 5V and skip the intermediate supply between that and the IGBT drive voltage.
Finally a comment about the bipolar LEM current sensors - if all they are doing is looking at the current from rectified mains charging the bulk bus capacitors, then there may be an easier and cheaper way of doing this. If you use a 50/60Hz capable current transformer on the incoming AC line (i.e. before the rectifier) then you can rectify it's output using a small bridge and feed this into the input (with burden resistor), with no power supply required at all - as it's on the AC side then a simple CT is enough. If a voltage doubling rectifier is used for the bus then the burden resistor value set in the UD3 cli/gui should be entered as twice the real value though (OR the CT ratio as half the real ratio), as the CT measures twice the actual DC bus current with the doubling rectifier, so it needs to be scaled to the real value and this is an easy way to do it.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on May 08, 2023, 10:11:40 PM
Quote
is there a preferred output P+N-ch mosfet you're aiming at and have tested?The point of that deadtime network is to allow using more or less any mosfets you can find. I haven't tried any specific one but built my gatedriver project that that network is inherited from with quite a few different ones without issue.
Quote
What sort of gate threshold variation do you think requires the passive deadtime network?Not sure, but the old design relied on the 5V driver supply to not have shoot through problems. That apparently just worked with those particular fets. I just wanted to have more flexibility with parts choice for the next version.
Quote
Have you noticed any performance differences with 5V vs higher (e.g. 12V) UCC drive IC voltage?No, since I haven't built a board yet :P
5V seems to be fine for the fets on the older UD3 model, but as i said I want to make the new version compatible with more devices. Possibility of using higher drive voltages is part of that.
Quote
Finally a comment about the bipolar LEM current sensorsInteresting Idea, but that gets a little cumbersome to do with three phase supplies. Not impossible, but just puttign a hall in between the rectifier and the bus seems a little easier to me :D
I also just prepared the order of the board, and including assembly of most smd components the boards cost less thatn 150$ for 5. I personally find that crazy, especially with all of the specialized non-basic parts in the design.
They are early prototypes and will likely have some bugs, but if anybody wants to have a board or two (without the psoc though!) just send me a pm and we can work something out.
Post by: ZeroGee on May 09, 2023, 05:24:08 AM
... I Think the biggest change is the fact that it has now been optimized for jlc pcb assembly. Especially since the board got quite crowded since the last version :o ...
Here's the link to the github repo if anybody is interested: https://github.com/TMaxElectronics
I'm wanting to spin up a few boards via jlcpcb w/bottom assembly, and I don't think I see the BOM and CPL in the repository. Just checking if this is intentional. Is this something you're anticipating people to generate in Altium via the repo files? I haven't had Altium on my machine in ages, since changing occupation to one that doesn't need it...
Post by: Hydron on May 09, 2023, 02:00:26 PM
QuoteFinally a comment about the bipolar LEM current sensorsInteresting Idea, but that gets a little cumbersome to do with three phase supplies. Not impossible, but just puttign a hall in between the rectifier and the bus seems a little easier to me :D
I also just prepared the order of the board, and including assembly of most smd components the boards cost less thatn 150$ for 5. I personally find that crazy, especially with all of the specialized non-basic parts in the design.
They are early prototypes and will likely have some bugs, but if anybody wants to have a board or two (without the psoc though!) just send me a pm and we can work something out.
Thanks for the reply, I think it's probably a good idea to have a look at shoot through before ordering my boards - the FDD8424 is pretty well matched but the AOD609 isn't quite so close. Could also just add the optional parts if I'm not too lazy.
RE three phase input - yes that certainly changes the equation about using the LEM sensor, however I've never had the pleasure of living somewhere with ready access to three phase power, so I honestly didn't even think of that :'(
150$ for 5 is indeed crazy cheap, I really need to try the service at some point (though I'd lose the luxury of parts on both sides of the board). Are there many SMD parts they couldn't manage? I didn't find any P+N FETs for the output in their available parts list so I assume this is one of the ones you have to add? Though it would be easy to miss something with the terrible parts search system.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on May 10, 2023, 03:25:55 PM
Quote
I'm wanting to spin up a few boards via jlcpcb w/bottom assembly, and I don't think I see the BOM and CPL in the repository.
tbh I'd wait with that until I got back my version and fixed the unavoidable mistakes I probably made on the PCB ^^ The assembly files will of course be in the repo then too :D
Quote
... I've never had the pleasure of living somewhere with ready access to three phase power,...Here in germany pretty much every houshold actually gets three phase power (we for example have 3x63A). Then again we have to pay like 35ct's/kWh now so it doesn't come cheap ::)
Quote
150$ for 5 is indeed crazy cheapI made a few optimizations and now its actually more like 100 ;D
Quote
(though I'd lose the luxury of parts on both sides of the board)no they actually do that too. Just costs a bit more :D
Quote
I didn't find any P+N FETs for the output in their available parts list so I assume this is one of the ones you have to add?nope, they have quite a selection actually ^^
In fact they have all the parts needed for the UD3 except for the psoc. No need to hand solder any other smd parts.
I suggest not using the parts browser from jlc because it is indeed horrendous. There is an open source website thats a lot better. Though the poorly maintained part parameters does still cause problems sometimes.
Of course there is the difference between basic and extended parts. Resistors, caps, diodes and the such like are pretty much all available as basic ones, but almost everything else on the UD3 is an extended one. Could certainly do with a bit more optimization, but at this point I don't really care to be honest. 100$ for 5 boards is cheap enough for me to just throw money at the problem :P
Extended parts eacht cost 2$ setup fee extra. When making more boards that makes less of a difference. Buying 20 UD3s would for example decrease the price to 15$/board including all specialized parts such as the drive voltage regulator. Without that it would probably get down to something like 10$
Post by: TMaxElectronics on May 22, 2023, 05:42:23 PM
Soldering from JLC seems ok, though there were two dry joints, and quite a few crusty looking ones.
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Looks pretty cool if I may say so myself :D
I Hand soldered only the PSOC and the through hole parts. Total cost was pretty high at around 40$/board but just because I ordered only two ;)
Hardware seems to be working nicely, but a few issues are present:
- +5/+12V selector for hall effect labeling swapped
- UVLO threshold divider needs to be changed, to allow for gate drive voltages down to 10V
- gate discharge resistor in the GDT powerstage was too small, needs changing to 10k to keep the mosfet from turning off during a long on time
- mislabelled fan pinout
- slow response of th egate drive voltage regulator... causes about 3V of droop for the first 400us of a pulse. Some compensation network tunings still required
I will be running some tests with the small coil I am building at the moment in the coming week, once those are passed I will ifx the errors in the board files and publish the gerbers, boms and pick&place files. I'll also be purchasing some more boards then.
In addition I will probably also end up with a few leftover populated boards from the second order, that i will probably sell on my website.
We will also add some way for the firmware to figure out which board revision it is running on, so there won't be two different firmware versions we need to maintain.
Post by: Kizmo on May 29, 2023, 10:31:11 PM
What kind of gate drive power this driver can support? My big coil (3.5 meters, ~30kW) is running some pretty big silicon, UD2.5 will handle it with 2 GDTs.
I have been looking at UD3 drivers for a while and it seems like PSoC availability has improved.
Post by: Hydron on May 30, 2023, 11:11:38 AM
What kind of gate drive power this driver can support? My big coil (3.5 meters, ~30kW) is running some pretty big silicon, UD2.5 will handle it with 2 GDTs.Will support the same GDT drive power as UD2.x - the drive stage is basically the same (albeit with a different P&N FET footprint, though it is possible to make a combined one that will take any of the TO-252/Power-SO8 options). You could even double up the PCB and only populate the gate drive section if you wanted to use 4 GDTs. Each of the two outputs is separate btw, which allows for freewheeling, phase-shift QCW etc.
Note that in the case of the coil I'm building now I'm using the UD3 code but not the PCB, and have located the gate drive circuitry on another board much closer to the GDTs/IGBTs (GDTs are planar transformers built right into the board!), will try and post some pics of that shortly.
With JLCPCB assembly prices what they are it might make sense to go all the way to isolated direct per-IGBT drivers though (at which point you can get desat detection etc as well to detect if one of those big IGBTs fail) - these days GDTs may not be the best choice for a more advanced coil and I'm considering whether to change tack with my design. Needs much more PCB design work though, so not the right choice for those trying to do a simpler coil and avoiding PCB layout work.
TMax - quick question on this topic, am interested in the choice of 100R on the output of the MOSFET driver, it seems like a fairly high value, have you noticed any slow-down of the gate drive because of it? Or are you using fets with significantly less gate charge than the FDD8424Hs?
Post by: FonziDaytona on May 30, 2023, 09:52:24 PM
-Matt
Post by: TMaxElectronics on May 31, 2023, 01:14:49 AM
Quote
What kind of gate drive power this driver can support?As hydron said, the powerstage is pretty similar to other UD drivers, though the modifications I made to still need some verification. JLCPCB unfortunately doesn't seem to have too great of a selection of N&P channel fet combos and I managed to kill the ones I selected when driving four TO247s in cw at 200kHz... could well be the large-ish 100Ohm resistor causing large switching losses. Will investigate further.
Quote
(GDTs are planar transformers built right into the board!)That sounds like a great idea. I've been wanting to try planar Transformers for a while but was always stopped by the layer requirements. I assume you managed to fit it onto just two or four?
Quote
With JLCPCB assembly prices what they are it might make sense to go all the way to isolated direct per-IGBT drivers thoughAbsolutely. Especially with faster and faster IGBTs (or even fets if I ever get my hand on some SiC parts) the stray inductance starts to become a real issue. The mini coil I'm building rn would kill the IGBTs if it wasn't for the TVS Diodes on the gates...
I've been meaning to play around a bit more with those all in one IGBT driver ICs, and even have a ready made board for driving bricks around, but haven't put it to a real test yet.
Quote
I’d be interested in buying a pre populated board.Once I fixed the issues with the boards I will add the UD3 to my webstore as a pre-order to better judge the total demand and then order a batch. I'll post about that once thats happening. Might even make a jlc-assembly friendly version of the fibernet to go along with them.
Post by: Intra on June 17, 2023, 12:38:51 AM
Kizmo said important thing. And I also should mention FDD8424H, which was good in 2009 and with kind of coils like in that past, in next two specific cases could be unreliable.
1. Some hard-gate-capacitance igbt like 1000A+ with freewheeling.
2. Some QCW like 50%+ of duty cycle with more than 2 bridges in parallel.
That is of course not a common cases, but I think that it will be good to get away from balancing on the probability that something not covering the continuous-wave-mode will fail by betting on the probability that it will not fail.
I understand, the goal of this was got packed with jlcpcb assembling, but if you have some bright thoughts about how to get this onboard, it will be nice to move this prj on this way.
My forthcoming QCW gate in attachment. TO-220 only because it has copper-plates to transport heat to radiator much more faster than fdd8424h. If there is something way to combine this case to jlcpcb assembling case it will be beautiful to add it to UD pcb prj, if you have interest to do that.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on July 06, 2023, 01:48:12 AM
I've fixed the issues I found with rev A of the board and will be releasing the new version in the coming days.
I'm especially impressed by the performance of the tiny gate drive voltage regulator. The new compensation has made it crazy fast and it now only drops around 200mV from a load transient of 0A-4A in 16us. It manages to supply around 7A peak at 19V, which is limited by the maximum dutycycle. Average I wouldn't pull more than maybe 65W due to thermal limitations, less if the input voltage isn't quite 24V or the ambient temperature is over 25°C. Oh also keep in mind, that the PCB gets to around 40°C over ambient under full load even with free convection. Could cause trouble if you have a 3d printed enclosure :D
Then again any IGBT setup that requires more power will likely not care about the added stray inductance from a 10:10:13 GDT and could thus be used with the VReg bridged.
Some firmware/psoc hardware changes also happened in the wake of my mini coil IGBT explosion debugging.
There was a glitch that could potentially cause the first four zero crossings after the start oscillator to be significantly wrong:
sorry about the scribbles in german and screen-photos, thats what I could find on my phone :)
This was caused by a zcd period of 0 counts being measured if there was a zcd pulse right after the first switch transition of a interrupter pulse. This now gets ignored.
Furthermore I changed the start oscillator to where it is now active indefinetely until enough current is detected in the primary resonant circuit. This threshold is adjustable and can thus be fine tuned to suit every coil. I have it set to 50A for my large DRSSTC and 25A for the small one.
The start_cycles now act as a limiter rather than the trigger to switch to feedback. If there is still not enough current after the number of start_cycles has elapsed the pulse will be stopped immediately and a feedback error thrown. You can also set how many of those can occur every second before a sysflt is triggered to protect IGBTs if the circuit doesn't start oscillating as it should.
I'm also about to make a version of the fibernet that is JLC-assemblable. I'll be releasing updated data of that once its done too. Oh and I might have figured out why that sometimes didn't boot after a long runtime... I was missing some pullups on I2C datalines that aren't in use, but it turns out they might be required anyway.
And finally:
I'll be accepting pre-orders of UD3s starting today. If you want one of the first batch please place a pre-order now, so I know how many boards I'll have to buy :)
It is going to come partially assembled: SMD components all soldered on, THT for you to solder ;)
Link (if it's ok for me to post it in a non-marketplace thread): https://tmax-electronics.de/product/ud3-1b-kit-preorder/ (https://tmax-electronics.de/product/ud3-1b-kit-preorder/)
Post by: Hydron on July 07, 2023, 04:36:46 PM
Are your changes in the digipot branch of Netzpfuscher's repo?
Post by: TMaxElectronics on July 09, 2023, 02:37:29 AM
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Are your changes in the digipot branch of Netzpfuscher's repo?jep, but you might get some weird behaviour with the bottom exp header, as there are the connections for the digipot controlling the VDrive regulator on it. You'll also want to change ivo_led to 1 after installing or the LEDs will be the wrong state. Currently the version detection is hardcoded to always detect a new UD3 as we haven't actually implemented that yet (rev b will have a 5 bit binary coded version indicator on the pcb.. resistors to be precise ;) ), though that should really only affect the default states of the LED and the exp_header behavior.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on July 10, 2023, 01:25:43 PM
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TMax - quick question on this topic, am interested in the choice of 100R on the output of the MOSFET driver, it seems like a fairly high value, have you noticed any slow-down of the gate drive because of it? Or are you using fets with significantly less gate charge than the FDD8424Hs?
I've actually just verified this, the gates to be turned off are discharged in around 20ns and the ones to be turned on charged in 100ns, both not very fast but in my opinion perfectly ok. I just really wanted to make sure there was enough deadtime between the two mosfets. Due to the low threshold the mosfet also already starts to turn on after only 40ns, again perfectly ok in my opinion.
I have actually changed to some TO252-4 mosfets for the rev.b. but might revert that change due to their probably slightly higher gate charge. The SO-8 Mosfets seem perfectly ok now that I'm using some with a power-pad to dissipate the heat.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on August 04, 2023, 07:17:33 PM
The Rev. B PCBs have arrived and are working well. I'll be shipping out the boards to those who pre-ordered during the next week or so (once I had the time to solder on the PSOCs).
I've also pushed the latest Gerber files to GitHub if you want to order the PCBs yourself.
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The V2 of the fibernet that is JLC-Asssembly optimized still needs some work with sizing of the footprints, but is working well otherwise too. I'll be releasing the gerbers for that too, but you will have to hand solder the PIC aswell as the LAN9250 (the mac chip).
Post by: TMaxElectronics on September 02, 2023, 08:37:27 PM
First of all I added a resistor to the IBus input filter to add a voltage divider to that input. This now allows using Voltage mode current sensors, that output more than 5V. I also added a solder jumper that means one no longer needs to de-solder the smd shunt for use with the voltage mode sensors.
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I also removed the little 5V regulator daughter board and replaced that with a smd 5V regulator. That way you don't need to solder that anymore and it will come pre-assembled when using the SMD assembly service. It is a little bit more expensive, but I think it's worth the reduction in soldering effort.
I might also just remove the position for the vdrive THT trim-pot, as the digiPot is working very well and I doubt the trimmer would ever be used. This will free up the space necessary to fit the 5V regulator :)
I'll be releasing that version as the UD3.1c once I verified the changes. The next batch of UD3's in my shop will be that version.
Post by: coilerer on November 17, 2023, 01:40:08 PM
On that note. I spoke to TMAX a while ago over email and confirmed that there is no buck ramp qcw mode currently available. Steve Ward mentioned he got "hacky" buck ramps to work on the early UD3. Is there any plan for developing buck ramp output as an alternative to phase shift? It would be great to get the arduino out of my build and just use the UD3.
Another question. Currently, I trigger my coil with an interrupter pin from the arduino. How would I go about telling the UD3 when the arudino is sending a ramp? This may become clearer to me as I mess with it, but I am still waiting on my programmer.
Thanks again for your hard work.
Daniel
Post by: Hydron on November 18, 2023, 10:19:52 PM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on November 24, 2023, 08:57:36 AM
Post by: coilerer on November 25, 2023, 01:05:56 PM
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You could probably do your own "hacky" ramp by fiddling with the PSoC code. Likely would just need tweaking the appropriate logic schematic to output pwm for the ramp instead of a variable phase shift, plus possibly a bit of SW tweaking, but the majority of the code can probably be left as is.
That's a bit out of my short-term comfort zone, but maybe I can try in the future :). Thanks!
We have no DAC-Channels free. I can give you a PWM output of the ramp, should be no big change.
That would perfectly replace my Arduino. It would also mean I don't need a wifi connection (to my Arduino) to control my ramps!
Post by: Jj on January 05, 2024, 11:09:50 AM
I'll be releasing that version as the UD3.1c once I verified the changes. The next batch of UD3's in my shop will be that version.
Hi Tmax do you have an idea of when your boards may be available again? I’m very keen to get a few to upgrade my old DRSSTCs.
Post by: Mads Barnkob on January 25, 2024, 01:01:36 PM
So far so good. Looking at its datasheet, it also takes +/- 12V and delivers 150mA at 300A. Identical to the LEM 306-S. But checking the numbers, 150mA into 50R would give 7.5V, not 5V maximum of the Ibus input.
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It is also listed to be a 1000:1 ratio CT (in schematic), but both are 1:2000
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So there might be a few errors like wrongly stated turns ratio and shunt resistor should have been 33R instead of 50R?
Post by: flyingperson23 on January 26, 2024, 06:26:58 AM
Post by: Netzpfuscher on January 26, 2024, 05:19:18 PM
It's no problem to change the CT2 shunt to something different. It needs no change in the code. Simply solder whatever you like, then change the "ct2_burden" (Ohms) accordingly. It's better not to rely on the internal clamping diodes of the PSOC, so make the shunt
small enough not to fry the MCU input. (There is a 470 Ohms in series, but better safe than sorry). Then change the "ct2_ratio" to 2000 and you're fine.
@flyingperson23
The UD3 software is not designed to output every current sample. It uses DMA to collect 25 samples from the ADC before interrupting the CPU to calculate everything. I implemented this to decrease interrupt load. The current is sampled with 8 kHz the CPU is interrupted at a rate of 320 Hz so that's the rate you're getting 25 sampled at a time. Is that fast enough? Otherwise you need to decrease the
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/892b8c25da2784e880c0c2617d417b14c3421ecd/common/ud3core/config.h#L40
This is the line calculating RMS:
https://github.com/Netzpfuscher/UD3/blob/892b8c25da2784e880c0c2617d417b14c3421ecd/common/ud3core/tasks/tsk_analog.c#L261
Post by: Kevindk9 on February 24, 2024, 02:25:30 AM
-Manual controls
Ability to operate the driver without connecting with a computer. Just a way to use an on/off foot switch and potentiometer to control power. Like it only runs when a button is pushed.
Also, It would be nice to have buttons and hotkeys in Tesla Term also, that way you don't have to go through the drop down menu to do stuff. (the tesla coil messes with my track pad)
-Induction heater mode
Currently im using a slightly modified version of the UD3 code and I run my induction heater in QCW mode. I modified the max on time and minimum repeat time so a new QCW shot happens as soon as the old one ends. The problem is it starts the whole QCW routine each time (hard switching and tracking). I believe this killed my IGBTs once because it hard switches for 10s of cycles at a very high voltage.
Ideally the IH mode would only do the routine a single time and implement a debounce feature to make sure the tank has time to ring down incase you interrupt it.
-Transformer mode
Just a simple mode to run a ferrite transformer. Ability to set a fixed frequency. You could control it using a button press or run it from Tesla Term and use it to modulate the arc and play music.
Post by: TMaxElectronics on February 24, 2024, 02:43:08 AM
I have a little ferrite core HV source that runs from a UD3 just using pulse width modulation. Pretty much just like you said: you could use the the pw slider in teslaterm to control the output power. I've also used the UD3 as a induction heater on a few occasions (once inadvertandly by having a hammer next to my big coil during testing... that then burned my hand :P).
The problem that I have with implementing that as a permanent feature is that there are some medium to large hardware changes required (especially for ferrite core mode) that aren't easy to do on the fly in the psoc. At least i don't know how :D Just placing different hardware next to the existing one and not enabling it until needed is unfortunately not an option as some types of the psoc hardware are already 100% used. I suppose the induction heater thing might work, but we'd really need to plan a proper mode switch in for that. Not just set the max. dutycycle to 100% :P
The idea of operation without a computer is nice and is actually partially implemented. The autostart option makes the coil behave exactly like a UD2.x or older coil with an interrupter input. But connecting anything to the UD3 directly (as in: without fiberoptic isolation) is not that good of an idea. We've already killed a few PSOCs just with crap coupled in through WS2812 LED strips ::)
But in the end it is an open source project: if somebody has an idea they can get the code and play around with it themselves, and if it works out well contribute back to the main codebase :)
Post by: malte0811 on February 24, 2024, 01:38:21 PM
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Also, It would be nice to have buttons and hotkeys in Tesla Term also, that way you don't have to go through the drop down menu to do stuff. (the tesla coil messes with my track pad)
This is something I have considered previously (mostly for the "kill" button), I just never got around to implementing it. I am currently in the middle of a larger refactor in TT (connecting to multiple coils with a single TT instance), once that is done I can look into hotkeys. Can you open an issue for it at https://github.com/malte0811/Teslaterm so I do not forget about it? In general hotkeys are going to be a "fallback" option though, with a mouse being the intended method of interaction. Have you tried using a "traditional" mouse rather than a touchpad? In my experience this is much more reliable around coils.
Since I'm already posting here: Currently Teslaterm has the option to run as a "headless" server (e.g. on an RPi installed in the coil), which the actual control computer then connects to using a standard browser. Is anyone actively using this mode ("node")? It complicates the code significantly in some places, so I would like to remove it if possible.