Author Topic: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build  (Read 7686 times)

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
I've had a small 1 liter xenon globe on my bench for a week or so now. It tend to be
self-starting ie nothing is needed other than turning the power supply on.

Today I moved it off my bench and to another location and the self-starting went away.
My thought was to add a ground plane underneath the coil and things got worse.

The factor that was important was the bench was wood, the new location was the surface
of a table saw which had a inch thick piece of wood over a metal ground (?).

It finally dawned on me (because I'm slow sometimes)...

...this is an RF circuit with all the weirdness that entails. Your circuit can and does include objects
nearby. It's like the issues with metal objects near a DRSSTC but even worse.

I am going to be very curious when the Chinese toroids start arriving here. Will they be as weird, interacting with
everything around them?

Time will tell.

Cheers.

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
Another quick note.

This part,

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115888934185?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D777008%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20240130164827%26meid%3Df566706a3e284e0fbe2a1820bb1d87f6%26pid%3D101959%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26itm%3D115888934185%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D4375194%26algv%3DRecentlyViewedItemsV2Mobile%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p4375194.c101959.m146925&_trkparms=parentrq%3A92bffaa618f0aab2fcf493b3fffe1ba8%7Cpageci%3A7ebfc52a-1626-11ef-9861-b66288d86e21%7Ciid%3A1%7Cvlpname%3Avlp_homepage

works just fine to start up my higher pressure (50torr) xenon globe.

I was a little apprehensive when I got the unit because another Chinese made HV module blew up a nice H/P power supply. When I hooked it up to another H/P supply and started to turn it on the OVP cut in. Seeing Deja-vou I used a battery to power it up. It ran fine and started up the toroid perfectly.

Currently I'm running it with a small wall-wart 12v@1.5 amp and it works fine. I would just recommend some caution around your supply.

Cheers.

Offline Hi-Deff

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi everybody!

I found this by accident and I'm glad I did because I haven't found many people to talk to about plasma toroids.  I built one using a 2 liter xenon globe.  This circuit is currently running on a "fake" Amazon IRFP260.  I'm going to try some different MOSFETS in the near future.  My circuit is running at 13.4 MHz.  The primary coil is very similar to Humxn's on YouTube.

I'm currently trying to figure out how to get the toroid to float in the center of the globe.  It likes to have one side sink near the coil.  I'm not sure how to correct this.  I'm using a cheap 30 VDC 5A power supply.  Maybe I need more power?  I'm not sure.  I'd like to know if anybody has any ideas.

If I adjust the current and bias just right, I get a tight toroid that centers itself right at the coil and it makes a squealing sound.  When this happens the current drops from around 2.3A to 0.8A.  However, the toroid will not float to the center.  It stays near the coil.

As a bonus, this circuit is a plasma candle circuit without the resonator coil.  I made a second coil that I can attach with an alligator clip to get a plasma candle.




 

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
According to humxn, the coil should be wound such that the HV (100pF) cap connection is on the bottom. Humxn also says lower current
makes the toroid float. So more power may not be the solution.

I can't tell from you picture how your circuit is arranged.

Other than that, I have no suggestions. I have two handmade one liter globes. One is 15 torr the other 50 torr.
The 15 torr "walks" around the coil. The 50 torr floats. They both use a crapload of power, 28V/3amps.

Wish I could help.

Cheers.

Offline Hi-Deff

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Hi Alan,

I've attached a poorly drawn schematic of what I've got going on.  The circuit assembly is point-to-point and inspired by Teslaundmehr's plasma candle.

I've got the 100pF cap attached to the bottom coil as Humxn suggested.  I requested 15 torr, so I'm assuming it's probably close to that.

I measured the value of L1 using a function generator and scope, wrote down the value on a piece of paper and then lost it.  I think it was around 15 uH, but this measurement wasn't very accurate.  That's a larger value than I've seen on most schematics.  It's 17 turns of 18 gauge around 26mm PVC.  I might try a smaller inductor.

I'm drawing around 2.3-2.5A at around 24 VDC.  If I decrease the current things get glitchy until the toroid floats near the coil.  Then, it will form a perfect toroid near the coil and lock-in that position creating a squealing sound.  The minor diameter shrinks and gets brighter.  At this point the current drops down to around 0.8 A and the toroid remains stable.  It just doesn't float above the coil.  It's at the same level of the coil.

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
The L1 inductor is to block the AC from the oscillator from reaching the power supply. I don't believe
 that it is a sensitive part of the circuit.

As I mentioned earlier I have two toroids, one floats, the other walks around. Why one does and the
other doesn't is a mystery to me. I tried humxn's suggestion that the electric field is what causes the
walking effect and made a coil with much wider spacing. It did not help.

Another thing to mess with is grounding. Also, for my set-up, if I have metal ground under the circuit
things go south. In my opinion, this plasma toriod demo is a very sensitive system. I'm beginning to
doubt that lessons learned from on set-up can easily transfer to another.

Good luck. I hope you find and document a solution.

Cheers.

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 314
  • Karma: +18/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2024, 10:54:48 PM »
Another interesting side effect. A beaded toroid.

/>
Cheers.

Offline Hi-Deff

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2024, 06:04:09 PM »
Have you seen this?  Some have speculated that there's some argon in there.  It looks like there's some metal or something at the bottom of the flask. Very cool.

https://youtube.com/shorts/8q_t78RE_-g?si=U0auvg6D6Sgl6XF7
« Last Edit: June 10, 2024, 06:07:11 PM by Hi-Deff »

High Voltage Forum

Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2024, 06:04:09 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Problem with SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Nunu00
July 12, 2024, 10:17:36 PM
post Making a HV prove
[Electronic Circuits]
Alberto
July 12, 2024, 09:01:08 PM
post Re: Problem with SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
July 12, 2024, 01:33:37 AM
post Re: Problem with SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Nunu00
July 12, 2024, 12:17:32 AM
post Re: Restoring a Rogowski coil calibrator
[Capacitor Banks]
davekni
July 11, 2024, 07:38:26 PM
post Re: Restoring a Rogowski coil calibrator
[Capacitor Banks]
klugesmith
July 11, 2024, 06:30:00 PM
post LOD No Double Resonant SSTC?
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
ColinHeath
July 11, 2024, 06:08:30 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 11, 2024, 12:24:56 PM
post Re: Strange QCW Streamer Behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 11, 2024, 06:42:23 AM
post Re: Syntherrupter Lightsaber Sender Programming
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Cameron Prince
July 11, 2024, 05:46:07 AM
post Syntherrupter Lightsaber Sender Programming
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Cameron Prince
July 11, 2024, 05:26:51 AM
post Re: Strange QCW Streamer Behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 11, 2024, 02:50:54 AM
post Strange QCW Streamer Behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Coupling
July 11, 2024, 12:59:55 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic Circuits]
petespaco
July 10, 2024, 07:10:34 PM
post Re: Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 10, 2024, 06:52:42 PM
post Re: Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
July 10, 2024, 06:28:19 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 10, 2024, 01:34:09 PM
post Re: Silicon(e) plasma
[General Chat]
alan sailer
July 10, 2024, 12:09:06 AM
post Re: Problem with SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Nunu00
July 09, 2024, 11:52:00 PM
post Understanding and tracking upper and lower poles of QCW DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 09, 2024, 07:37:22 PM
post Re: Silicon(e) plasma
[General Chat]
MechatEng2023
July 09, 2024, 07:30:05 PM
post Re: UD2.7C outputs very odd single square wave pulses
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 09, 2024, 03:30:49 AM
post Re: UD2.7C outputs very odd single square wave pulses
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
verliebt_in_neukölln17
July 09, 2024, 12:51:02 AM
post Re: UD2.7C outputs very odd single square wave pulses
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 08, 2024, 11:30:44 PM
post Re: Why so cheap?
[General Chat]
alan sailer
July 08, 2024, 10:57:10 PM
post UD2.7C outputs very odd single square wave pulses
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
verliebt_in_neukölln17
July 08, 2024, 10:21:01 PM
post Why so cheap?
[General Chat]
MRMILSTAR
July 08, 2024, 09:55:24 PM
post Re: Syntherrupter - A Feature-rich, Polyphonic Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Cameron Prince
July 08, 2024, 09:18:21 PM
post Re: Syntherrupter - A Feature-rich, Polyphonic Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
July 08, 2024, 05:17:49 PM
post Re: Syntherrupter - A Feature-rich, Polyphonic Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Cameron Prince
July 08, 2024, 04:49:20 PM
post Re: Tesla coil in FEMM
[Beginners]
Simranjit
July 08, 2024, 04:28:43 AM
post Re: Tesla coil in FEMM
[Beginners]
davekni
July 08, 2024, 04:06:53 AM
post Tesla coil in FEMM
[Beginners]
Simranjit
July 08, 2024, 03:46:49 AM
post Re: Best core material for QCW Buck modulator ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 08, 2024, 02:42:00 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 08, 2024, 01:37:55 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC Build- Issues with Fibernet project
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Sebigamer
July 08, 2024, 12:53:08 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
July 08, 2024, 12:49:48 AM
post Re: Silicon(e) plasma
[General Chat]
alan sailer
July 07, 2024, 11:15:35 PM
post Silicon(e) plasma
[General Chat]
MechatEng2023
July 07, 2024, 11:04:43 PM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 07, 2024, 09:39:07 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC Build- Issues with Fibernet project
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 07, 2024, 05:32:56 PM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
July 07, 2024, 02:52:19 PM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
July 07, 2024, 02:50:04 PM
post Re: Best core material for QCW Buck modulator ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
July 07, 2024, 02:20:11 PM
post Teardown of a APC SmartUPS VT 40 kVA
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
July 07, 2024, 10:02:22 AM
post First DRSSTC Build- Issues with Fibernet project
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Sebigamer
July 07, 2024, 09:23:58 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 07, 2024, 12:44:53 AM
post Re: FEMM tesla coil simulation
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 07, 2024, 12:08:50 AM
post Re: FEMM tesla coil simulation
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 06, 2024, 10:35:49 PM
post FEMM tesla coil simulation
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 06, 2024, 09:42:43 PM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 06, 2024, 06:06:23 PM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 06, 2024, 10:21:16 AM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 06, 2024, 10:15:42 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 06, 2024, 04:53:56 AM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 06, 2024, 04:42:16 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 06, 2024, 04:09:50 AM
post Re: Best core material for QCW Buck modulator ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 06, 2024, 03:07:11 AM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 06, 2024, 03:05:18 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 06, 2024, 02:37:16 AM
post Re: QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 06, 2024, 02:20:14 AM
post QCWDRSSTC - Project Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 06, 2024, 01:55:14 AM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 05, 2024, 11:50:37 PM
post Best core material for QCW Buck modulator ?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 05, 2024, 10:07:04 PM
post 230v Tesla coil and krypton gas
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
gravitysrainbow
July 05, 2024, 07:13:25 PM
post Re: No change in Phase Lead
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 05, 2024, 06:17:13 PM
post Re: Phase lead inductors
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
July 04, 2024, 11:40:45 PM
post Re: Sling Psychrometer
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
Twospoons
July 04, 2024, 11:02:32 PM
post Phase lead inductors
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 04, 2024, 06:28:08 PM
post Re: Sling Psychrometer
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
klugesmith
July 04, 2024, 12:31:40 AM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 04, 2024, 12:07:21 AM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 04, 2024, 12:06:17 AM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
July 03, 2024, 10:51:23 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
July 03, 2024, 09:44:14 PM
post Re: Coax cable for DRSSTC interrupter?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 03, 2024, 08:48:13 PM
post Re: Coax cable for DRSSTC interrupter?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 03, 2024, 08:24:50 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 03, 2024, 08:12:55 PM
post Re: Coax cable for DRSSTC interrupter?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 03, 2024, 07:29:53 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 03, 2024, 07:21:38 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 03, 2024, 05:05:39 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 03, 2024, 04:29:53 PM
post Re: FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 03, 2024, 04:09:11 PM
post FIRST DRSSTC SKM400GB128D OCD SETTING
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 03, 2024, 02:47:18 PM
post Re: Eliminating discharges from a SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Alex_1996
July 03, 2024, 01:35:24 PM
post Re: Coax cable for DRSSTC interrupter?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
July 03, 2024, 02:19:03 AM
post Re: Coax cable for DRSSTC interrupter?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
verliebt_in_neukölln17
July 03, 2024, 01:19:50 AM
post Coax cable for DRSSTC interrupter?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Simranjit
July 02, 2024, 11:29:18 PM
post Re: Is this a good pulse experiment capacitor?
[Capacitor Banks]
Mads Barnkob
July 02, 2024, 09:59:07 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 02, 2024, 09:55:53 PM
post Re: Capacitor wiring for single phase 240 to split phase (180 degree) 240v
[Capacitor Banks]
klugesmith
July 02, 2024, 09:44:55 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 02, 2024, 07:51:37 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ZakW
July 02, 2024, 06:14:07 PM
post Is this a good pulse experiment capacitor?
[Capacitor Banks]
FPS
July 02, 2024, 06:02:38 PM
post Re: LabCoatz Staccato QCW No straight sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
July 02, 2024, 11:37:46 AM
post Re: Building my first DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
July 02, 2024, 05:22:10 AM
post Re: Coulometric hourmeters
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
davekni
July 02, 2024, 05:16:30 AM
post Re: Building my first DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
drobotk
July 01, 2024, 11:50:12 PM
post Re: Restoring a Rogowski coil calibrator
[Capacitor Banks]
klugesmith
July 01, 2024, 08:48:53 PM
post Uses for Weston's Little Bee probe
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
klugesmith
July 01, 2024, 08:40:59 AM
post Re: Coulometric hourmeters
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
klugesmith
July 01, 2024, 08:09:42 AM
post Re: Coulometric hourmeters
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
davekni
June 30, 2024, 06:49:45 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal