Author Topic: ZCS for SSTC without E class??  (Read 410 times)

Offline Binukrockzzz

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« on: October 22, 2023, 08:01:57 PM »
I was wondering if there was any way to use ZCS in a normal, non DR, non class E SSTC...

Is there any way that something like this is possible??

Offline AstRii

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • Czech Technical University in Prague
    • View Profile
    • UHVlab - Tesla Coils | High Voltage | Education
Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2023, 10:06:04 PM »
If I understand that correctly, when the load current on the primary is much higher than the magnetizing current, the primary current will be sinusoidal (assuming the secondary current is sinusoidal). Then with some clever feedback circuitry like PLL you can set the phase of the current to be close to in-phase with the output voltage of the bridge.
You can see this phase setting on a PLL driven SSTC from Jakub Tejiščák here:
 
Bc. Marek Novotny
Czech Republic, Czech Technical University in Prague
www.uhvlab.org

Offline AstRii

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • Czech Technical University in Prague
    • View Profile
    • UHVlab - Tesla Coils | High Voltage | Education
Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2023, 10:25:21 PM »
A quick parametric LTSpice simulation confirms my statement above:


Bc. Marek Novotny
Czech Republic, Czech Technical University in Prague
www.uhvlab.org

Offline davekni

  • Executive Board Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2568
  • Karma: +124/-1
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2023, 06:03:25 AM »
Quote
I was wondering if there was any way to use ZCS in a normal, non DR, non class E SSTC...

Is there any way that something like this is possible??
Quote
You can see this phase setting on a PLL driven SSTC from Jakub Tejiščák here:
Yes, a PLL is probably best way to adjust to ZCS for any given SSTC design.  Some SSTCs get lucky and hit ZCS by chance.  High coupling helps, as does a high secondary Q.  If there is just enough delay in the feedback, but not too much, ZCS can be the result.  Perhaps a feedback delay adjustment would suffice at least in some cases.
David Knierim

Offline Binukrockzzz

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2023, 11:49:28 AM »
Thank you AstRii and Dave for taking your time to reply to my message.
If there is just enough delay in the feedback, but not too much, ZCS can be the result.  Perhaps a feedback delay adjustment would suffice at least in some cases.
I have an adjustable RC delay in my feedback, but when I adjust it even a tiny bit, the output decreases significantly...
If I understand that correctly, when the load current on the primary is much higher than the magnetizing current, the primary current will be sinusoidal (assuming the secondary current is sinusoidal). Then with some clever feedback circuitry like PLL you can set the phase of the current to be close to in-phase with the output voltage of the bridge.
I thought about PLL, but it sounds a bit complicated to implement. I've found a circuit online for a PLL SSTC, but the diagram says 300-400khz and my planned secondary resonates at around 201 kHz (JavaTC). I want to know how to tune such a circuit to drive a lower frequency secondary... The circuit is attached below.

Offline AstRii

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Karma: +7/-0
  • Czech Technical University in Prague
    • View Profile
    • UHVlab - Tesla Coils | High Voltage | Education
Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2023, 07:21:45 PM »
PLL sounds complicated at first but it's actually quite simple. I recommend watching this video:
If you want the circuit to oscillate at lower frequency, you need to adjust R1 and R2. The needed values can be read off the datasheet:

Although you can just put some resistors without any thinking and simply see what frequency range does it provides. And then adjust the values.
I recommend using bigger timing capacitor because using small capacitances like <100pF leads to different center frequency every time you run the circuit..

For reference I've build two PLL coils (although without ZCS tunning):
https://www.uhvlab.org/ctu-sstc
https://www.uhvlab.org/sstc-ii

The best running PLL coil I've seen is the already mentioned Jakub Tejiščák's coil, although I've never quite understood how does his approach achieve ZCS:
https://www.vn-experimenty.eu/teslov-transformator/sstc/sstc-5.html
He is modifying the value of R2 to get ZCS, but in my understanding, R2 is there only to set the frequency range at which the PLL can operate. Somehow it works though. Maybe someone can clear this up?


« Last Edit: October 23, 2023, 07:24:15 PM by AstRii »
Bc. Marek Novotny
Czech Republic, Czech Technical University in Prague
www.uhvlab.org

Offline Binukrockzzz

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2023, 05:30:38 AM »
Thank you for recommending me that video. I now understand how a PLL works.



The best running PLL coil I've seen is the already mentioned Jakub Tejiščák's coil, although I've never quite understood how does his approach achieve ZCS:
https://www.vn-experimenty.eu/teslov-transformator/sstc/sstc-5.html
He is modifying the value of R2 to get ZCS, but in my understanding, R2 is there only to set the frequency range at which the PLL can operate. Somehow it works though. Maybe someone can clear this up?

That's the part that I dont understand too. I know how the PLL oscillates at the right frequency, but how is ZCS achieved?

High Voltage Forum

Re: ZCS for SSTC without E class??
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2023, 05:30:38 AM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Primary to secondary arc flashover, how close can you keep the secondary?
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
Today at 06:01:17 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
Today at 05:50:53 AM
post Re: Feedback current transformer doesn't work
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
Today at 05:34:32 AM
post Small Coil Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
Today at 02:23:01 AM
post Re: GU-81 vs. GU-81M
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
thehay95
Today at 12:40:36 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
Today at 12:38:37 AM
post Primary to secondary arc flashover, how close can you keep the secondary?
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
nzoomed
Today at 12:26:10 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
Today at 12:03:30 AM
post Re: Feedback current transformer doesn't work
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
November 29, 2023, 08:12:27 PM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC3
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 29, 2023, 06:32:03 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 27, 2023, 03:12:43 PM
post Benjamin's DRSSTC3
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
November 27, 2023, 09:07:43 AM
post Re: Feedback on new freewheeling driver schematic
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 27, 2023, 12:27:13 AM
post Re: Feedback on new freewheeling driver schematic
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FilipŠebík
November 26, 2023, 11:18:29 PM
post First part of my bipolar Tesla coil project and future improvements
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MechatEng2023
November 26, 2023, 10:07:55 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 26, 2023, 09:57:50 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 26, 2023, 08:04:56 PM
post Re: Choosing a Capacitor for a 30hz Marx generator
[Voltage Multipliers]
bobfrancis1980
November 26, 2023, 07:53:47 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
November 26, 2023, 05:14:20 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
davekni
November 25, 2023, 08:04:05 PM
post Re: Single Photon Dual Slit Demonstartion
[Detection, Counting and Measurements]
alan sailer
November 25, 2023, 07:16:02 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
coilerer
November 25, 2023, 01:05:56 PM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
coilerer
November 25, 2023, 01:02:05 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 25, 2023, 04:29:13 AM
post Re: Choosing a Capacitor for a 30hz Marx generator
[Voltage Multipliers]
davekni
November 25, 2023, 04:15:02 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic Circuits]
klugesmith
November 24, 2023, 11:57:26 PM
post Re: Single Photon Dual Slit Demonstartion
[Detection, Counting and Measurements]
klugesmith
November 24, 2023, 11:26:58 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 24, 2023, 11:26:04 PM
post Re: Choosing a Capacitor for a 30hz Marx generator
[Voltage Multipliers]
bobfrancis1980
November 24, 2023, 10:08:43 PM
post ABB DCS400 - 900A / 522kW DC Motor Drive Teardown
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
November 24, 2023, 07:33:46 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Netzpfuscher
November 24, 2023, 08:57:36 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic Circuits]
petespaco
November 24, 2023, 06:40:13 AM
post Re: Help for people buying the "12-48 Volt 1800/2500 Watt ZVS induction Heater"
[Electronic Circuits]
tarak
November 24, 2023, 04:04:48 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 23, 2023, 09:58:21 PM
post Re: My 9MHz hfsstc
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
cuteKaisa
November 23, 2023, 02:17:52 PM
post Re: My plasma ring
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
cuteKaisa
November 23, 2023, 11:11:59 AM
post Re: Try to build the 4MHz ClassE SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
NyaaX_X
November 23, 2023, 07:25:26 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 23, 2023, 05:19:57 AM
post Re: Try to build the 4MHz ClassE SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 23, 2023, 05:18:41 AM
post Re: Choosing a Capacitor for a 30hz Marx generator
[Voltage Multipliers]
davekni
November 23, 2023, 05:06:51 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 23, 2023, 04:51:16 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
davekni
November 23, 2023, 04:31:56 AM
post Single Photon Dual Slit Demonstartion
[Detection, Counting and Measurements]
alan sailer
November 22, 2023, 09:15:36 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 22, 2023, 08:36:14 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 22, 2023, 07:59:21 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 22, 2023, 07:28:05 AM
post Choosing a Capacitor for a 30hz Marx generator
[Voltage Multipliers]
bobfrancis1980
November 22, 2023, 12:19:34 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 21, 2023, 09:35:21 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 21, 2023, 09:31:51 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 21, 2023, 07:34:43 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 21, 2023, 02:02:52 PM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
flyingperson23
November 21, 2023, 06:14:38 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
davekni
November 21, 2023, 04:54:39 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 21, 2023, 04:41:17 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
November 21, 2023, 04:18:24 AM
post Re: inject high current in high voltage electric arc
[Transformer (Iron Core)]
Twospoons
November 21, 2023, 04:05:54 AM
post Re: inject high current in high voltage electric arc
[Transformer (Iron Core)]
Quentief
November 21, 2023, 03:40:22 AM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 20, 2023, 09:18:25 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 20, 2023, 07:30:40 PM
post Re: Try to build the 4MHz ClassE SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
NyaaX_X
November 20, 2023, 03:08:39 PM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
flyingperson23
November 20, 2023, 06:07:43 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
davekni
November 20, 2023, 03:36:36 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
flyingperson23
November 20, 2023, 12:54:58 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
Anders Mikkelsen
November 19, 2023, 11:34:16 PM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
November 19, 2023, 10:29:08 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 19, 2023, 10:00:16 PM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
davekni
November 19, 2023, 09:58:27 PM
post Neon & xenon
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
MechatEng2023
November 19, 2023, 09:19:44 PM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
November 19, 2023, 05:19:07 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 19, 2023, 05:32:49 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 19, 2023, 04:47:45 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
flyingperson23
November 19, 2023, 01:09:21 AM
post Re: SG3525A Plasma Speaker - Project
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
ZakW
November 19, 2023, 12:30:59 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 19, 2023, 12:01:31 AM
post Re: WTS/WTT: T520-2 - Micrometals core, MO, USA
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
flyingperson23
November 18, 2023, 10:38:04 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
November 18, 2023, 10:19:52 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 18, 2023, 07:39:36 PM
post Re: GU-81 vs. GU-81M
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
janno288
November 18, 2023, 07:14:48 PM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Uspring
November 18, 2023, 07:10:02 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 18, 2023, 06:24:23 PM
post Re: GU-81 vs. GU-81M
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 18, 2023, 09:26:37 AM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 18, 2023, 09:21:56 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 18, 2023, 09:15:32 AM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
November 18, 2023, 07:36:20 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 18, 2023, 06:43:41 AM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 18, 2023, 06:41:20 AM
post Re: Problem with output with fullbridge sstc
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
NyaaX_X
November 18, 2023, 02:31:18 AM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
November 18, 2023, 12:20:24 AM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 17, 2023, 11:40:01 PM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
November 17, 2023, 09:58:36 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 17, 2023, 09:49:11 PM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 17, 2023, 09:45:23 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 17, 2023, 09:40:13 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
November 17, 2023, 08:49:25 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
AstRii
November 17, 2023, 08:19:20 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 17, 2023, 08:09:01 PM
post Re: Strange frequency behavior
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
November 17, 2023, 08:08:13 PM
post Re: First drsstc issues
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hari33
November 17, 2023, 08:04:56 PM
post Re: Need Help with LTspice Circuit for Simulating a Spark Gap
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
November 17, 2023, 07:34:33 PM
post Re: DRSSTC low power testing killing IGBTs
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 17, 2023, 07:28:06 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal