Author Topic: Is this going to work very well  (Read 2246 times)

Offline thedoc298

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Is this going to work very well
« on: September 29, 2019, 06:43:34 PM »
Both tesla programs recommend a 27nf cap for srsg. How is that to work using 15000/60 or 15000/120 as it is not enough to charge the capacitor fully. 33.75 ms

would it be better to use a smaller cap that can be charged fully in 120 bps time frame

Why use a cap that can only be charged to 70 percent using 15000/60, don't this kill proformance...? Or you get what you get...

Mabe just need to get a pig.

Offline MRMILSTAR

  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
  • Karma: +20/-0
  • Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    • View Profile
Re: Is this going to work very well
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 10:37:20 PM »
The SRSG will fire regardless of the capacitor size and charge due to the transformer output being shorted across the gap as the SRSG electrodes align. This will establish a plasma path for the capacitor to discharge through if it doesn't fire on its own charge voltage. This assumes of coarse that your transformer has a sufficiently high voltage to bridge the spark gap. 3 KV/mm is a good rule-of-thumb.

Perhaps you are referring to this parameter in JAVATC: "SRSG LTR Cap Size". If so, this is NOT a required capacitor size for primary circuit resonance. You can use any capacitor value that is convenient for that. LTR stands for "Larger Than Resonant". Due to their fragile construction, NSTs can be destroyed by a resonant condition (not the same as the primary circuit resonance frequency) between the NST secondary coil and the capacitor. I can't see your JAVATC design but the 27 nF that you refer to is probably the LTR capacitor size for a SRSG. This is an ideal size to avoid that NST-capacitor resonance condition and to yield maximum output. Its just a guide line. You can use other values. You can read a detailed explanation of LTR on Richie Burnett's web site or elsewhere (pupman.com).

You will get an output, though maybe no streamers without a break-out point, even if your capacitor is not fully charged. It is better, but not necessary, to have your capacitor sized so that ideally it would be charged close to 100% at the beginning of each bang. This is because streamer length is based on energy per bang. The energy in the capacitor is determined by the following equation:

E = 0.5 * C * (V**2)

Since the energy is related to the square of the voltage but only linearly with the capacitance, it is better to trade off slightly smaller capacitance if a larger charged voltage can be accomplished. In other words, a slightly higher voltage has a much bigger effect on energy than a slightly larger capacitor. You can experiment with this relationship in JAVATC.

FYI, I have my capacitors sized (45 nF) to charge to 95% at the start of each bang at 240 PPS. My power supply is a 14.4 KV pole pig current-limited to 27 amps. I don't have to worry so much about LTR size because pole pigs are much more robustly built than NSTs.

Your NST should be fine. Use a 60 ma one if you have it. It will charge the capacitor faster.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 11:37:45 PM by MRMILSTAR »
Steve White
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Retired electrical engineer

Offline thedoc298

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Is this going to work very well
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 11:49:18 PM »
The SRSG will fire regardless of the capacitor size and charge due to the transformer output being shorted across the gap as the SRSG electrodes align. This will establish a plasma path for the capacitor to discharge through if it doesn't fire on its own charge voltage. This assumes of coarse that your transformer has a sufficiently high voltage to bridge the spark gap. 3 KV/mm is a good rule-of-thumb.

Perhaps you are referring to this parameter in JAVATC: "SRSG LTR Cap Size". If so, this is NOT a required capacitor size for primary circuit resonance. You can use any capacitor value that is convenient for that. LTR stands for "Larger Than Resonant". Due to their fragile construction, NSTs can be destroyed by a resonant condition (not the same as the primary circuit resonance frequency) between the NST secondary coil and the capacitor. I can't see your JAVATC design but the 27 nF that you refer to is probably the LTR capacitor size for a SRSG. This is an ideal size to avoid that NST-capacitor resonance condition and to yield maximum output. Its just a guide line. You can use other values. You can read a detailed explanation of LTR on Richie Burnett's web site or elsewhere (pupman.com).

You will get an output, though maybe no streamers without a break-out point, even if your capacitor is not fully charged. It is better, but not necessary, to have your capacitor sized so that ideally it would be charged close to 100% at the beginning of each bang. This is because streamer length is based on energy per bang. The energy in the capacitor is determined by the following equation:

E = 0.5 * C * (V**2)

Since the energy is related to the square of the voltage but only linearly with the capacitance, it is better to trade off slightly smaller capacitance if a larger charged voltage can be accomplished. In other words, a slightly higher voltage has a much bigger effect on energy than a slightly larger capacitor. You can experiment with this relationship in JAVATC.

FYI, I have my capacitors sized (45 nF) to charge to 95% at the start of each bang at 240 PPS. My power supply is a 14.4 KV pole pig current-limited to 27 amps. I don't have to worry so much about LTR size because pole pigs are much more robustly built than NSTs.

Your NST should be fine. Use a 60 ma one if you have it. It will charge the capacitor faster.

I just have never noticed the charge voltage not at 100 percent, I thought in my mind I had seen that my cap had time to multi charge to full in in the 4 ms period but the math showes different. Thanks again for the reaffirm. I need about 200ma to get to 100 percent. will buy a pig soon, found several. Need to buy some pole climbing gear.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Is this going to work very well
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 11:49:18 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Re-chargeable 1.5 volt lithium ion AAA batteries
[General Chat]
MRMILSTAR
Today at 04:47:35 AM
post Re: Re-chargeable 1.5 volt lithium ion AAA batteries
[General Chat]
davekni
Today at 03:59:27 AM
post Re: Kaizer VTTC 1
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
MRMILSTAR
March 28, 2024, 09:15:11 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 28, 2024, 01:01:12 PM
post Re: Big Coil Build Log
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 28, 2024, 05:47:34 AM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
davekni
March 28, 2024, 04:45:07 AM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
March 28, 2024, 04:18:27 AM
post Push Pull VTTC
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
janno288
March 28, 2024, 01:10:08 AM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 27, 2024, 10:54:52 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
markus
March 27, 2024, 11:53:42 AM
post Re: OCD Triggering Early + Low Output
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 27, 2024, 05:14:36 AM
post Re: Is the UD2.7C under voltage lock out basically worthless?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 27, 2024, 04:47:48 AM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 27, 2024, 04:41:59 AM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
March 27, 2024, 12:04:34 AM
post Re: Super flat QCW simulation (does this look reasonable?)
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
toooldforthis
March 26, 2024, 11:08:14 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 26, 2024, 11:07:20 PM
post Re: Is the UD2.7C under voltage lock out basically worthless?
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 26, 2024, 10:46:29 PM
post OCD Triggering Early + Low Output
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
March 26, 2024, 09:03:43 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
March 26, 2024, 08:46:59 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 26, 2024, 05:02:18 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
March 26, 2024, 03:16:03 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
Anders Mikkelsen
March 26, 2024, 01:41:49 PM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 26, 2024, 04:48:22 AM
post Re: Re-chargeable 1.5 volt lithium ion AAA batteries
[General Chat]
MRMILSTAR
March 26, 2024, 04:16:37 AM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 26, 2024, 04:16:24 AM
post Re: Smoke Screen Machine Protect 950 XP - Teardown of a Smoke Cannon!
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
March 26, 2024, 04:13:02 AM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
March 26, 2024, 04:00:43 AM
post Re: Re-chargeable 1.5 volt lithium ion AAA batteries
[General Chat]
davekni
March 26, 2024, 03:19:18 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
March 26, 2024, 01:50:42 AM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 25, 2024, 08:05:02 PM
post Re: Smoke Screen Machine Protect 950 XP - Teardown of a Smoke Cannon!
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
March 25, 2024, 07:41:29 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
March 25, 2024, 06:45:46 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 25, 2024, 05:44:25 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
Anders Mikkelsen
March 25, 2024, 04:47:17 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
March 25, 2024, 04:27:22 PM
post Re-chargeable 1.5 volt lithium ion AAA batteries
[General Chat]
MRMILSTAR
March 25, 2024, 03:57:34 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
markus
March 25, 2024, 02:06:41 PM
post Re: Odd MOSFET Driver Behavior
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
KrisPringle
March 25, 2024, 04:43:25 AM
post Re: Odd MOSFET Driver Behavior
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
March 25, 2024, 02:39:40 AM
post Re: Odd MOSFET Driver Behavior
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
KrisPringle
March 25, 2024, 12:47:09 AM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 24, 2024, 07:36:32 PM
post Re: My completed 14-stage Cockroft-Walton voltage multiplier
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 24, 2024, 07:27:24 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
March 24, 2024, 04:25:23 AM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 23, 2024, 10:47:35 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
March 23, 2024, 09:30:21 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 23, 2024, 04:34:31 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
March 23, 2024, 03:04:25 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 23, 2024, 01:38:34 PM
post Re: capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
March 23, 2024, 04:20:03 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
davekni
March 23, 2024, 12:54:30 AM
post Re: Smoke Screen Machine Protect 950 XP - Teardown of a Smoke Cannon!
[Electronic Circuits]
davekni
March 23, 2024, 12:05:57 AM
post capacitor and diodes. Voltage values for a CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
Alberto
March 22, 2024, 11:45:03 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
OmGigaTron
March 22, 2024, 11:30:09 PM
post Smoke Screen Machine Protect 950 XP - Teardown of a Smoke Cannon!
[Electronic Circuits]
Mads Barnkob
March 22, 2024, 10:20:35 PM
post Re: Where's all this voltage coming from?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Benbmw
March 22, 2024, 09:21:13 PM
post Re: What actually kills MOSFETs?
[Beginners]
AstRii
March 22, 2024, 03:37:11 PM
post What actually kills MOSFETs?
[Beginners]
FPS
March 22, 2024, 05:09:20 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 22, 2024, 03:57:54 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 22, 2024, 02:59:25 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 21, 2024, 06:31:42 PM
post Re: 2x Panasonic Inverter Microwaves - what to salvage, dangers?
[General Chat]
rikkitikkitavi
March 21, 2024, 03:08:01 PM
post Re: [WTS] IGBT, Ferrite, Capacitors, Tools, PSU, Industrial components and parts
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
Mads Barnkob
March 21, 2024, 01:37:32 PM
post Re: Difference between these transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Alberto
March 21, 2024, 11:42:07 AM
post Re: Phase Lead Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 21, 2024, 04:09:14 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 21, 2024, 02:15:31 AM
post My Homemade Structural Analysis X-Ray Machine
[X-ray]
Luca c.
March 21, 2024, 01:35:40 AM
post Re: Phase Lead Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
March 20, 2024, 10:40:00 PM
post Re: Difference between these transformers
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Mads Barnkob
March 20, 2024, 08:03:41 PM
post Re: 2x Panasonic Inverter Microwaves - what to salvage, dangers?
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
March 20, 2024, 07:51:57 PM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
March 20, 2024, 10:39:47 AM
post Re: Phase Lead Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
March 20, 2024, 04:09:59 AM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 20, 2024, 01:13:23 AM
post Re: Phase Lead Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Keybored
March 20, 2024, 12:45:16 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 20, 2024, 12:30:30 AM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 19, 2024, 11:12:24 PM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Late
March 19, 2024, 09:47:49 PM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Late
March 19, 2024, 09:44:19 PM
post Phase Lead Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
March 19, 2024, 06:52:09 PM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 19, 2024, 05:02:44 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
March 19, 2024, 05:01:41 PM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
March 19, 2024, 04:31:02 PM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
March 19, 2024, 03:59:54 PM
post Re: Benjamin's DRSSTC 2 in progress
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
March 19, 2024, 06:41:39 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
davekni
March 19, 2024, 04:05:49 AM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
OmGigaTron
March 18, 2024, 09:08:35 PM
post Re: Can I Trust This Super Cheap Site?
[General Chat]
2020-Man
March 18, 2024, 09:07:35 PM
post Re: Can I Trust This Super Cheap Site?
[General Chat]
Twospoons
March 18, 2024, 08:57:06 PM
post Re: Can I Trust This Super Cheap Site?
[General Chat]
MRMILSTAR
March 18, 2024, 03:51:33 PM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Late
March 18, 2024, 02:59:46 PM
post Re: 160mm DRSSTC II project | Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Late
March 18, 2024, 02:33:25 PM
post Can I Trust This Super Cheap Site?
[General Chat]
2020-Man
March 18, 2024, 11:02:12 AM
post Re: Where's all this voltage coming from?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Twospoons
March 18, 2024, 02:36:11 AM
post Re: Best forum for vacuum tube amplifiers?
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
March 17, 2024, 07:42:55 PM
post Re: 2x Panasonic Inverter Microwaves - what to salvage, dangers?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
March 17, 2024, 04:15:14 PM
post Re: 2x Panasonic Inverter Microwaves - what to salvage, dangers?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
March 17, 2024, 05:05:04 AM
post Re: Where's all this voltage coming from?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
March 17, 2024, 04:50:51 AM
post Re: 2x Panasonic Inverter Microwaves - what to salvage, dangers?
[General Chat]
Twospoons
March 17, 2024, 04:45:17 AM
post 2x Panasonic Inverter Microwaves - what to salvage, dangers?
[General Chat]
Michelle_
March 17, 2024, 04:17:51 AM
post Where's all this voltage coming from?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Terry
March 17, 2024, 01:29:32 AM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
March 17, 2024, 12:33:06 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal