Author Topic: Cost reduction in consumer electrics  (Read 3187 times)

Offline klugesmith

  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 690
  • Karma: +22/-0
    • View Profile
Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« on: December 05, 2019, 07:25:20 AM »
This toaster oven was being thrown away at work, and I took it apart for recycling.  Had been unable to remove the heating rods from inside the oven.

Each plastic end came off with just one screw. 
That revealed internal wiring mostly done without insulation, tab terminals, or even crimp connections.  Assembly by spot welding stiff bare wire from point to point.  Here we see at least five "neutral" and three "hot" connections made that way.

I didn't look at what voltages are present on the circuit board, which I think is an electronic (!) timer for the toaster function. When you push the "start toast" button, an electromagnet holds the switch On until de-energized. Perhaps that's a safety feature.

Only six more screws had to come out to free all sheet metal parts, hinged front door, hinged crumb tray in the floor, etc.  The left ends of heating rods were jumpered together with more welded bare wire.  No expensive sockets to fail. :-)

Seems like a reliable, low-cost way to make an appliance, if nobody wants to fix them when they break.

[edit] the circuit board is, indeed, the toast timer.  Connected to an actual rotary potentiometer on front panel!  It has no connectors, and came out of soldered assembly with wire pigtails that were then welded at final assembly.

Low voltage DC comes from a familiar "hobby" circuit that I'd never before seen in a commercial product.
120 V hot goes through a minimum-width etched trace, as a fuse, then a 1.5 uF series capacitor to be an AC current source, then bridge rectifier.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 08:02:41 AM by klugesmith »

Offline sjsimmo

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Australia
    • View Profile
Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2019, 11:09:20 AM »
Interesting teardown, klugesmith.


I pulled apart a fairly normal pop-up toaster a few weeks back. It was constructed in a very similar manner. had welded wires to connect the heating element, and an electromagnet which held the toast down, whilst also acting as a relay for the 240V. Rather than a capacitor based dropper for the power-supply though, it simply took a tap off the main heating element, and used it as a voltage divider to provide ~12VAC to the control board.
I like my food cooked with lightning.

Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • Executive Board Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2278
  • Karma: +72/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2019, 07:33:01 PM »
It is quite interesting what you can get away with and still slap a CE (if it was in Europe, I assume you must have similar rules in US?) sticker on a appliance.

For this to be legal there would have to requirements of only using this on a properly fused, ground fault detector (RCD) installation because it does not look like its double insulated, which can lessen some demands for CE mark.

There is another explanation, you can almost get away with anything, there is no check of a product before entering the European market, requirement is only you have a CE mark on, to testify that you obey the rules/laws/standards, but in reality there is little to none reimbursement against those who break it with a intended bad product. It might get removed from a country by local authorities, but a widespread ban of a manufacturer is not viable as there is no juristiction outside of Europe. So the company in Szenchen changes name, rebrands the product and off it goes again :(
https://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline the_anomaly

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +2/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2019, 03:35:39 AM »
For medical products, IEC standards have creepage and clearance requirements for exposed conductors.  They denote line of sight and surface length from conductor to case.  This is intended for non insulated connection points like flag terminals.  I would expect consumer products have similar standards. 

My current toaster oven's manual requested the unit be run for some time until the elements stopped emitting smoke.  Burning off some manufacturing lubricant I assume. 

Offline davekni

  • Executive Board Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2767
  • Karma: +132/-1
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2019, 03:48:34 AM »
Still safer than early days of residential electrification.  When my great grandparents first got electricity, bath water heating went like this:  Fill tub with cold water.  Take heater from hook on wall and place in tub.  Heater is bare resistance wire wound around a slab of wood, with a cord going to an exposed (no box) knife-switch on the ceiling above the tub.  Close the exposed knife switch and wait for water to warm.  Open the switch and hang the heater board back on the wall hook.  Bathe.

Not that I'm suggesting relaxing standards.  It's just fun to think about where we've come from.
David Knierim

Offline MRMILSTAR

  • High Voltage Senior
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Karma: +20/-0
  • Cedar Rapids, Iowa
    • View Profile
Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2019, 08:35:29 PM »
Here is possibly the most dangerous consumer electronic item that I have seen that is available today. There is a Youtube video on the Electroboom channel that shows something very similar to what Dave is referring to except that it is available today on E-Bay and Amazon. Its basically a 240 volt heating element exposed to the water stream housed in a shower head. Apparently they are popular in less-developed countries as a way to get a hot shower. I wonder how many people have been electrocuted by this device?

« Last Edit: December 06, 2019, 11:30:59 PM by MRMILSTAR »
Steve White
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Retired electrical engineer

Offline station240

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2020, 09:57:56 AM »
I've seen toaster ovens with short lengths of solid wire welded between adjacent elements.
But never that extensive, or over longer distances.

Also seen spade terminals welded to heating elements, at right angles so you can't just slide the element out.

High Voltage Forum

Re: Cost reduction in consumer electrics
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2020, 09:57:56 AM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
Today at 04:57:47 AM
post Re: IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ethanwu0131
Today at 03:40:53 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
Today at 01:31:17 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 11:19:52 PM
post 3D printed mini-slayer: world's weakest tesla coil
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 11:10:19 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
alan sailer
April 15, 2024, 11:04:19 PM
post Re: Ignitron trigger drive ideas?
[Capacitor Banks]
Twospoons
April 15, 2024, 11:02:05 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 10:57:59 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 10:55:46 PM
post Re: Return of Electronics Flea Market in "Silicon Valley"
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
klugesmith
April 15, 2024, 10:37:32 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
April 15, 2024, 10:05:00 PM
post Re: How to get a GE Yokogawa AB40 Sync Scope to rotate without a powerplant.
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
MRMILSTAR
April 15, 2024, 09:28:50 PM
post Ignitron trigger drive ideas?
[Capacitor Banks]
klugesmith
April 15, 2024, 09:06:42 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 15, 2024, 08:46:32 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Benbmw
April 15, 2024, 08:38:39 PM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
sky-guided
April 15, 2024, 08:23:40 PM
post How to get a GE Yokogawa AB40 Sync Scope to rotate without a powerplant.
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
Bobakman
April 15, 2024, 06:43:23 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 15, 2024, 06:29:10 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 05:21:53 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
April 15, 2024, 05:15:33 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 15, 2024, 04:07:54 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
April 15, 2024, 03:49:03 AM
post Re: Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
alan sailer
April 14, 2024, 09:46:30 PM
post Small-ish 3D printed SGTC via cheap ZVS flyback build, humbly asking a couple ?s
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Michelle_
April 14, 2024, 07:31:00 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
April 14, 2024, 02:26:19 PM
post Re: mg75q2ys40 IGBT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2024, 07:20:54 AM
post Re: IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 14, 2024, 07:18:20 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 13, 2024, 06:46:40 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 13, 2024, 04:18:42 AM
post Re: Upper and Lower Explosive Limits on Confined Flammable Vapors at -79 C.
[General Chat]
alan sailer
April 13, 2024, 03:24:20 AM
post Re: Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
alan sailer
April 13, 2024, 03:20:46 AM
post Game changing tesla coil secondary winding suggestions
[General Chat]
Michelle_
April 13, 2024, 03:13:22 AM
post Re: Capacitor Blowout
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
lbattraw
April 12, 2024, 09:14:58 PM
post mg75q2ys40 IGBT
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedark
April 12, 2024, 08:40:18 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 07:20:30 PM
post Re: Mosfet Buffer Stage Questions
[Beginners]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 07:12:43 PM
post IKY150N65EH7, is it good for DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ethanwu0131
April 12, 2024, 04:47:33 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
April 12, 2024, 11:43:36 AM
post Mosfet Buffer Stage Questions
[Beginners]
Egg
April 12, 2024, 12:49:02 AM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 12:41:16 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 12, 2024, 12:22:41 AM
post Re: Capacitor Blowout
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 10:45:53 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
April 11, 2024, 07:39:30 PM
post Re: UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 11, 2024, 07:24:52 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
sky-guided
April 11, 2024, 06:09:30 PM
post UD 2.7 OCD LED stays on, no output during inital test
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Admiral Aaron Ravensdale
April 11, 2024, 12:55:16 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 03:40:00 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
sky-guided
April 11, 2024, 03:05:07 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 02:57:33 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 01:44:32 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 01:31:40 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 11, 2024, 01:11:00 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 12:58:52 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 11, 2024, 12:31:37 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 11, 2024, 12:30:21 AM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
alan sailer
April 10, 2024, 11:41:46 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Mads Barnkob
April 10, 2024, 11:33:32 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 10:41:33 PM
post Re: Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
MRMILSTAR
April 10, 2024, 10:31:31 PM
post Tesla coil safety questions, risk analysis quantified
[Beginners]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 09:56:35 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
unrealcrafter2
April 10, 2024, 08:59:26 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
markus
April 10, 2024, 06:35:30 PM
post Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 10, 2024, 05:35:14 PM
post Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
unrealcrafter2
April 10, 2024, 03:07:02 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 03:42:12 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 10, 2024, 03:41:04 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
sky-guided
April 10, 2024, 02:50:23 AM
post Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Unrealeous
April 10, 2024, 01:32:17 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 10, 2024, 01:26:29 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 10, 2024, 01:18:35 AM
post Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 09, 2024, 07:34:19 PM
post Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 09, 2024, 06:14:27 PM
post Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
markus
April 09, 2024, 06:08:53 PM
post Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
markus
April 09, 2024, 05:15:19 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Michelle_
April 09, 2024, 05:11:04 PM
post Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
April 09, 2024, 06:32:16 AM
post DRSSTC V1 using BSM150
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Unrealeous
April 09, 2024, 04:04:47 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 09, 2024, 03:27:11 AM
post Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 09, 2024, 03:25:47 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 09, 2024, 03:01:40 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
sky-guided
April 09, 2024, 02:46:46 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 08, 2024, 09:32:57 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 08, 2024, 09:25:11 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 08, 2024, 08:45:15 PM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
OmGigaTron
April 08, 2024, 08:24:13 PM
post Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 08, 2024, 04:02:48 PM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 08, 2024, 03:45:30 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedark
April 08, 2024, 03:35:32 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
April 08, 2024, 03:12:45 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 08, 2024, 03:03:26 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benjamin Lockhart
April 08, 2024, 02:24:41 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedark
April 08, 2024, 01:29:53 AM
post Re: First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 08, 2024, 12:55:50 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 08, 2024, 12:38:52 AM
post Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
April 07, 2024, 11:56:02 PM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
April 07, 2024, 07:49:29 PM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedark
April 07, 2024, 06:28:12 PM
post First DRSSTC SKM100
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Saattvik24
April 07, 2024, 06:13:59 PM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Benbmw
April 07, 2024, 05:44:55 AM
post Re: Oversize Snubber Capacitor
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
April 07, 2024, 12:45:52 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal