Author Topic: Bipolar CW -- now at a strong 25"  (Read 890 times)

Offline abstruse1

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Bipolar CW -- now at a strong 25"
« on: May 15, 2022, 03:46:25 AM »
I've read several bipolar CW articles, but I'm having trouble getting two, half-rectified CWs working together.

1.  Is it necessary to use two separate flybacks?
2.  Two separate drivers?
3.  Will the bipolar design work with full wave CWs, or do they need to be half wave?

Finally, could anyone give me a simple schematic of the two multipliers hooked up together?

Thanx, guys.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 10:22:57 PM by abstruse1 »
Abstruse1
   Been working with electricity for 60 years and still getting a tingle!

Offline abstruse1

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bipolar CW -- OP Update
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2022, 06:44:28 AM »
We seemed to have figured this out.  With two, 7-stage half rectified CWs, oppositely polarized, I'm getting 18" of strong, loud sparks.  I had to shut down to move the setup to a larger cart and spread out, since there was a lot of unintended sparking between the various wires.  Based on the last run at 18", this setup is capable of at least a few more inches.

Stay tuned! ;D
Abstruse1
   Been working with electricity for 60 years and still getting a tingle!

Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • Executive Board Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2025
  • Karma: +53/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: Bipolar CW
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 08:59:27 AM »
Hi Abstruse, I am loosing overview of which projects you are talking about, is all your CW threads about the same project?

Could you please list the threads in a reply, then I can merge them all together, so it makes more sense. There is no need to make new threads for every single question, its better to keep it one long thread, else all history is hard to find.
https://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline abstruse1

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bipolar CW
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2022, 04:08:41 AM »
Mads, I have several CW projects (efforts, really) that have gone from almost nonfunctioning to quite satisfactory.  My soft goal is to generate 36" hard sparks (not arcs), so I'm hoping to get ~18" from a single CW, then duplicate it except for polarity, and let them arc to each other.

We dug out an early, half rectified, 7 stage CW and duplicated it except for polarity.  They work fine together,getting (so far) 18" sparks.  I'm using an inductive heater driver and a 1,000 turn home made flyback that has been reliable, both of these powering the dual CWs.

At this point, my main question is can I do the same polarity trick with two fully rectified CWs.

Stay tuned.
Abstruse1
   Been working with electricity for 60 years and still getting a tingle!

Offline Coupling

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bipolar CW
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2022, 04:09:30 PM »
If I understand what you are asking, then yes, you can do a bipolar arrangement of full-wave CW multipliers. I have worked with so-called "center-fed" full-wave CWs personally.

Offline abstruse1

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bipolar CW
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2022, 02:24:25 AM »
Got it.  Thanx, guys.
Abstruse1
   Been working with electricity for 60 years and still getting a tingle!

Offline Vdekje

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bipolar CW
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2022, 05:05:20 AM »
I find Falstad-ing things like this to be a helpful sanity check: https://tinyurl.com/23w7rxts

Left is a bipolar center-tapped full wave, right is a bipolar halfwave. The disadvantage of a center-tapped full wave is that it requires double the supply voltage. You can also use a center-tap grounded transformer in the halfwave bipolar CW (I think... the high inductance between the multiplier and ground could be an issue (e.g. secondary flashover) during low-impedance sparking), so you really do need a supply with double the voltage capability. On the other hand, you'll notice that under a 4MΩ load the output voltage of the center-tapped full wave is around 2.75 times that of the halfwave.

I believe using higher voltages per stage is advantageous in regards to voltage sag (even accounting for the accompanying reduction in capacitance) due to the reduced stage count, so the higher required supply voltage would become a larger issue if you push stage voltages higher. Another bonus of lower stage counts is that the first capacitor only sees pk supply voltage, not 2x pk supply voltage, so you need fewer capacitors total.

Offline abstruse1

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Bipolar CW -- update
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2022, 07:15:11 PM »
CW Multiplier, Progress to Date

I’ve finally gotten to the point where I’m having good luck with CWs and have a moderately good understanding of the basics (haven’t yet got to working with resonance).

My best effort to date, judged by spark length, is 23” – 24.”  The multiplier should be capable of >24”, but at >23”, I get flashovers under the oil, so I can only get 23” confidently.  I'm running it in an 8" polycarbonate tube.  Now at a strong 25"  Gonna quit here and build another of opposite polarity.







It’s a 15-stage, fully rectified, using 860pF, 20kV Murata (I think) caps, and 1x or 2x 2CL2FM diodes, 2 in series at first few stages, then singles.  I’ve also used 2CL2FP and HVRL400 diodes, both of which have a higher voltage rating, but with 20kV capacitors, so far I can get by with the lower rated diodes.

Input power is 5x 12v SLA batteries thru a 1kW 14 ohm rheostat.  I always turn the device off and on by ramping down or up with the rheostat.  I was having trouble blowing diodes and guessed that sudden voltage/current changes were responsible.  Looks like I was right.

Then to an inductive heater driver that has been very reliable.  Is specifies 48vdc max input voltage, but I don’t know whether that’s OCV or load voltage.  I'm putting more than 48vdc into it. I measure load current and voltage into the driver (more on that later).

Then to homemade FB that has ~1,000 turns 28AWG secondary in four sectors on the bobbin, and 8 turns 12AWG solid primary.  This has been fairly reliable, altho I have blown a couple of secondaries.  Run in mineral oil that I cooked and evacuated.  I expect that removing one turn from the pri would give me greater output voltage.  Also, I have no gap in the ferrite core, and I have no idea what kind of ferrite it is.




A main problem has been insulating the HV (post-FB and post-CW) wiring.  I use 2-3 layers of silicone and polycarbonate tubing.

With 60vdc output from the driver at 22 Amps at the batteries, I get 23” of a LOUD, high frequency spark.  Note that I differentiate between sparks and arcs, the latter resulting from higher current (I think).  I prefer sparks.

I’m working on being able to measure the voltage out of the FB.  I can’t do that with a DVM above ~30kV due (I think) to EMF that makes the meter blank out,  so I’m trying to get an analog meter to work, using an op-amp (any thoughts here?).

Next step is to duplicate the CW and polarize it oppositely, hoping for a combined ~48”.  We’ll see.  When I try this, I'll need to decide whether it'd work better to share the single FB with both multipliers (I've done this with smaller, half-rectified CWs); or to use a second FB and share the driver with both FBs; or to have two drivers, two FBs and two multipliers.  Suggestions welcome.

Thanx for the great help I’ve gotten from so many forum members!
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 10:24:09 PM by abstruse1 »
Abstruse1
   Been working with electricity for 60 years and still getting a tingle!

High Voltage Forum

Re: Bipolar CW -- update
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2022, 07:15:11 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mthome4
Today at 10:28:54 PM
post Re: Driverless Single Mosfet Relay interrupted SSTC? - [All kinds of problems]
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
Today at 05:32:02 PM
post Re: Is this a pulse cap
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
55#sofcopper
Today at 04:39:00 PM
post Re: Audio modulation questions, chords
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Max
Today at 10:28:42 AM
post Re: Audio modulation questions, chords
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
Today at 04:49:55 AM
post Re: Audio modulation questions, chords
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Max
Today at 12:32:58 AM
post Re: RF mosfets and laser generation
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
dru
October 03, 2022, 11:29:26 PM
post Re: are these small guys flybacks?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Alberto
October 03, 2022, 10:43:21 PM
post Re: Is this a pulse cap
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
October 03, 2022, 10:22:59 PM
post Re: Is this a pulse cap
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
klugesmith
October 03, 2022, 08:18:40 PM
post Is this a pulse cap
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
55#sofcopper
October 03, 2022, 07:36:49 PM
post Re: Getting last joules out of batteries
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
rikkitikkitavi
October 03, 2022, 05:20:17 PM
post Re: RF mosfets and laser generation
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
Da_Stier
October 03, 2022, 10:26:07 AM
post RF mosfets and laser generation
[Light, Lasers and Optics]
dru
October 03, 2022, 03:31:12 AM
post Re: Getting last joules out of batteries
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
klugesmith
October 03, 2022, 01:57:50 AM
post Re: Getting last joules out of batteries
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
davekni
October 03, 2022, 01:45:48 AM
post Re: Audio modulation questions, chords
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
dru
October 03, 2022, 12:17:07 AM
post Audio modulation questions, chords
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
dru
October 03, 2022, 12:14:34 AM
post Re: are these small guys flybacks?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Mads Barnkob
October 02, 2022, 08:10:51 PM
post Re: are these small guys flybacks?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Alberto
October 02, 2022, 05:47:51 PM
post Re: Getting last joules out of batteries
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
rikkitikkitavi
October 02, 2022, 05:31:05 PM
post Re: Radiometer Copenhagen OSG 42b Oscilloscope Repair, From The 1950'ish
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
rikkitikkitavi
October 02, 2022, 05:27:23 PM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mthome4
October 02, 2022, 02:24:19 PM
post Re: are these small guys flybacks?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Mads Barnkob
October 02, 2022, 01:11:56 PM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
October 02, 2022, 04:48:00 AM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mthome4
October 02, 2022, 12:46:19 AM
post are these small guys flybacks?
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
Alberto
October 01, 2022, 10:13:29 PM
post My audio modulated sstc circuit, an easy one for beginners
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
dru
September 30, 2022, 08:05:55 PM
post Re: [WTS] large selection of IGBT bricks, large electrolytic capacitors
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
dbach
September 30, 2022, 04:17:35 PM
post Re: Driverless Single Mosfet Relay interrupted SSTC? - [All kinds of problems]
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
September 30, 2022, 05:01:14 AM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 30, 2022, 04:46:59 AM
post Re: Driverless Single Mosfet Relay interrupted SSTC? - [All kinds of problems]
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
September 29, 2022, 10:23:27 PM
post [WTS] (EU) electrolytic caps 4700uF + film caps 30uF
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
costas_p
September 29, 2022, 10:13:52 PM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
JCF
September 29, 2022, 05:36:58 PM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Anders Mikkelsen
September 29, 2022, 12:05:51 PM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 29, 2022, 05:18:23 AM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
September 28, 2022, 08:28:16 PM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
JCF
September 28, 2022, 06:05:46 PM
post Re: controlling the negative gate bias voltage of the Gate drive transformer
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
prabhatkumar
September 28, 2022, 05:16:13 PM
post Re: DC charging solution
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
September 28, 2022, 05:43:34 AM
post Re: Recommended development boards for QCWDRSSTC
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
davekni
September 28, 2022, 05:20:55 AM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 28, 2022, 05:15:19 AM
post Re: Recommended development boards for QCWDRSSTC
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dru
September 27, 2022, 07:11:42 PM
post Re: Recommended development boards for QCWDRSSTC
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dru
September 27, 2022, 07:07:00 PM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
JCF
September 27, 2022, 05:08:45 PM
post DC charging solution
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Conrad73
September 27, 2022, 04:57:38 PM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 27, 2022, 03:12:49 AM
post Re: Ud failure
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
klugesmith
September 27, 2022, 02:23:44 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 26, 2022, 07:55:31 PM
post Re: Help with PLL induction heater driver
[Electronic Circuits]
dbach
September 26, 2022, 04:04:11 PM
post Re: What am I missing?!?!?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
September 26, 2022, 05:13:23 AM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 26, 2022, 05:10:13 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 26, 2022, 05:03:46 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 26, 2022, 04:33:12 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 26, 2022, 03:01:21 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 26, 2022, 01:30:04 AM
post Re: Help with PLL induction heater driver
[Electronic Circuits]
Anders Mikkelsen
September 25, 2022, 10:57:23 PM
post Re: Ud failure
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 25, 2022, 09:59:53 PM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mthome4
September 25, 2022, 09:43:24 PM
post Re: Recommended development boards for QCWDRSSTC
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
davekni
September 25, 2022, 07:33:57 PM
post Re: Ud failure
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 25, 2022, 07:06:33 PM
post What am I missing?!?!?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Conrad73
September 25, 2022, 06:35:43 PM
post Radiometer Copenhagen OSG 42b Oscilloscope Repair, From The 1950'ish
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
Mads Barnkob
September 25, 2022, 03:18:22 PM
post Re: Recommended development boards for QCWDRSSTC
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Rafft
September 25, 2022, 02:53:30 PM
post Recommended development boards for QCWDRSSTC
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dru
September 25, 2022, 09:05:37 AM
post Re: Ud failure
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
September 25, 2022, 08:29:09 AM
post Re: Ud failure
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 25, 2022, 05:27:41 AM
post Re: Gauss meter for strong magnetic fields
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
klugesmith
September 25, 2022, 02:12:21 AM
post Ud failure
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
flyingperson23
September 25, 2022, 01:50:45 AM
post Re: controlling the negative gate bias voltage of the Gate drive transformer
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 24, 2022, 09:36:58 PM
post Re: Gate drive transformer with negative gate bias voltage
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
prabhatkumar
September 24, 2022, 06:56:35 AM
post Re: Gate drive transformer with negative gate bias voltage
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 24, 2022, 06:09:03 AM
post Re: Gauss meter for strong magnetic fields
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
davekni
September 24, 2022, 01:32:08 AM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mthome4
September 23, 2022, 10:55:21 PM
post Re: Gauss meter for strong magnetic fields
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
AstRii
September 23, 2022, 10:39:13 PM
post controlling the negative gate bias voltage of the Gate drive transformer
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
prabhatkumar
September 23, 2022, 05:48:17 PM
post Gauss meter for strong magnetic fields
[Laboratories, Equipment and Tools]
Peregrine
September 23, 2022, 02:01:10 PM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 23, 2022, 03:04:31 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 22, 2022, 04:15:36 PM
post Re: SSTC - PCB design
[Beginners]
Przemekk00
September 22, 2022, 12:39:51 PM
post Re: Possible Leads on Single Photon Camera
[General Chat]
alan sailer
September 22, 2022, 12:05:55 AM
post Re: Possible Leads on Single Photon Camera
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
September 21, 2022, 10:32:29 PM
post Possible Leads on Single Photon Camera
[General Chat]
alan sailer
September 21, 2022, 03:57:38 PM
post Re: Driverless Single Mosfet Relay interrupted SSTC? - [All kinds of problems]
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
September 21, 2022, 05:50:15 AM
post Re: Musical interrupter problems
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
RoamingD
September 20, 2022, 10:29:41 PM
post Re: Musical interrupter problems
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
September 20, 2022, 08:24:30 PM
post Re: Driverless Single Mosfet Relay interrupted SSTC? - [All kinds of problems]
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
September 20, 2022, 06:23:54 PM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 20, 2022, 05:20:07 AM
post Re: TO247 mounting
[Beginners]
davekni
September 20, 2022, 05:15:35 AM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
September 19, 2022, 11:43:47 PM
post Re: TO247 mounting
[Beginners]
Weston
September 19, 2022, 09:58:56 PM
post Re: Some questions about my first drsstc.
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
mthome4
September 19, 2022, 09:05:35 PM
post Re: Musical interrupter problems
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
RoamingD
September 19, 2022, 12:58:35 PM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 19, 2022, 12:13:46 AM
post Re: MMC capacitor crash
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 19, 2022, 12:09:22 AM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 18, 2022, 11:38:51 PM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
FonziDaytona
September 18, 2022, 10:41:54 PM
post Re: Musical interrupter problems
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
September 18, 2022, 10:31:32 PM
post Re: Musical interrupter problems
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
RoamingD
September 18, 2022, 10:09:33 PM
post Re: UD2.7 dual Purpose Use
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
September 18, 2022, 09:58:34 PM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal