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Messages - Hydron

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181
I gotta admit that I've mostly forgotten how I did this - certainly need to get better at documenting projects, it's bitten me more than once when trying to fix/change something years down the track!

I can assure you that it's possible though, and not just with the relay solution (this was simply the easiest for futurist's setup - I did it differently, with a bridge rectifier, optocoupler and resistor driving the pump PSU enable line _I think?_)

For reference, this is what I ended up building:



Everything except the filter and iron were salvaged parts, so it was cheap to build but certainly time consuming!

182
There are a couple of videos in the folder with the new data - maybe enough to give a rough idea of the relative breakout lengths?

183
I have a suspicion that any non-linearities and DC component may be down to the scope involved; the unit used for the initial topload measurements and later the primary measurements was one I was given as a reject by the producer (whom I personally know) - while I managed to at least mostly fix it with replacement of some front end parts it could easily still have some minor issues. The second scope doesn't have this chequered history!
Note that I used high bandwidth CTs (Pearson model 2877s) for the second lot of topload measurements - these should eliminate most of the worries about resistors.

Sadly the COVID-19 crisis and associated air travel issues have put paid to my latest attempt to get newer data - I should have been running the coil in question over the last couple of weekends but instead I had to return to the UK early due to my original flight being cancelled.

184
General Chat / Re: Corona lockdown thread, tell about your situation
« on: April 21, 2020, 11:41:41 PM »
I took my partner in for a test a few weeks back in NZ - she'd gotten a new cough (most likely allergies) and that plus recent international travel made them request a test. Can confirm that the swab looks long enough to tickle your brain!

Came back negative in a bit over a day's time. She was in a slightly less exclusive group than you - over 98% of tests have been negative in NZ (covering at least ~1.5% of population, hard to tell exactly without knowing the number of re-tests).

Since her test they've widened the testing criteria to "any new respiratory symptoms/fever" or "you went to a supermarket where we're doing random population testing" - no "COVID Toe" needed! (I hadn't heard of such a thing before your post).

Unfortunately we've just arrived back in the UK, where the criteria seems to be "severely ill in hospital" - a number of colleagues have had it and not even been close to being tested, so the current UK prevalence numbers are a fantasy at best - the tests they are doing are coming back with a positive rate over 1/3.

185
In theory in NZ we are limited to 10A*230V=2300VA per device, but 16A or 20A circuit breakers are common, so you can push it to 4+kVA pretty easily, though I've certainly tripped breakers there.
The UK has even more headroom - the plug is fused internally at 13A max (giving ~3100VA at 240V), but would literally handle hundreds of amps given the huge pins, and the circuits can be up to 32A or so. Kettles etc certainly work better in the UK (at 3kW) than in the US!
The northern europeans probably all have 16A 230V circuits in addition to 3 phase 10kVA+ options even domestically, lucky bastards!

Regarding keeping a long pulse time coil happy on a limited mains circuit, I've plans on the back burner to build a software-controlled active PFC with input current limiting. As long as the voltage on the DC bus caps at the end of a pulse is above the peak mains voltage (easy at 120V) you'll always have control of power, and in addition you'll draw your current as real rather than reactive power, also maximising the use of a limited mains supply.

186
Electronic Circuits / Re: Unusually long-lived electrolytic capacitor
« on: March 26, 2020, 01:04:52 PM »
I've just recommissioned a 60's vintage Heathkit IP-20 PSU, complete with mostly or all original electrolytics (had to open it up because the power indicator bulb had come loose and it's actually part of the regulator circuit).

No obvious issues with any of the electrolytics, which is very handy as I'm in lockdown away from my normal kit and most of my spare parts, and am using it out of necessity for paying work!

187
General Chat / Re: Corona lockdown thread, tell about your situation
« on: March 25, 2020, 12:30:32 PM »
Ah that's a bugger, there is a lot of spectacular scenery they missed after W(h)anganui, especially in the south island. Hope they made it home OK, though it does seem like a bit of "out of the frying pan, into the fire" going back to the states right now given the numbers there (assuming that's where they are going to?).

188
Light, Lasers and Optics / Re: Problems with toslink receiver
« on: March 21, 2020, 11:58:39 PM »
TOSLINK is designed for a "DC balanced" manchester-encoded bitstream. Using it in an interrupter application is not guaranteed to work, as your signal will be far from what they are designed to handle. This is the main reason why people typically use more expensive industrial fibre optics parts.

189
General Chat / Re: Corona lockdown thread, tell about your situation
« on: March 20, 2020, 01:58:14 AM »
Been back in NZ in self-isolation for a day now - I'd brought my trip forward a couple of weeks so that even if the government made everyone self-isolate then I could still make my sister's wedding (now to be a small affair), and sure enough by the time we left effectively all arrivals have to go into isolation for 2 weeks. People in self-isolation are still allowed to go out using private transport or a bicycle, just not get into contact with other people (i.e. no shopping etc).

Numbers in NZ are going up pretty quick, though yesterday's were all travel related and crossing fingers that today's are the same. No sign of community transmission yet but there's always that worry that they're not doing enough testing to pick it up if there was. Really hoping that we don't come out of isolation straight into a lockdown! Low population density here would probably help significantly though if it did get fully loose, though unfortunately it's also headed into winter now so they're also worried about the normal seasonal pressures on the health system from the flu etc.

Hopefully will have a chance to do some electronics while here - I brought some kit with me as I needed to do some remote work anyway. This includes a thermal camera, so I'll try and get some footage if I manage to get my big coil up and running :)

190
Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC) / Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
« on: March 17, 2020, 01:47:14 PM »
Thanks for the new features - will have to have a play with them. I've just packed my UD3 to come with me on a hastily re-arranged trip to NZ (where my larger coil is), so I might be able have another go at using it on that. Gotta use those 2 weeks in isolation somehow!

For those that may not realise, manchester encoding would also likely allow for the use of cheap TOSLINK cables and recievers/transmitters. It would however need to be translated back to a normal UART encoding on the PC control end.

191
Locked due to psuedo-science BS. Can't say it much better than MRMILSTAR did above.
Note that the problem isn't with discussing electronics - if the OP or anyone else wants to get back to that then I can unlock the topic (PM me or Mads - he will have the final say).

192
Sorry to be negative, but I think you're going to continue to struggle until:
- you get or build a driver that actually has real, open information about it's operation that you understand, and which also allows for a phase lead to be set. A random aliexpress driver might be OK if you can follow the design discussion etc on chinese forums, but if not then stick to something that's open and documented in an accessible way.
- you get some proper probes for looking at the bridge output (even a cheap ebay 100x passive probe will work if you reference it to mains earth)
- make sure that best practices are followed regarding the critical parts of the circuit. These are mainly the loop area of the IGBT connections to eachother, the output and their decoupling capacitors, GDT drive stray inductance and the IGBT gate drive network.

193
The gate drive waveform isn't as important as the actual output waveform when it comes to worrying about phase lead. There will be delays in the IGBT switching that you're not seeing. Aim for having it switch just a tiny bit before the zero crossing of the current - it is better to turn off a little early than late (avoids any diode recovery issues).

194
It's also a good idea to add a speedup for the turn off resistance to help avoid shoot through etc.

195
Transformer (Iron Core) / Re: Microwave Oven Transformer
« on: February 07, 2020, 02:50:43 PM »
MOTs are already ballasted to a degree as part of their use in a microwave oven, however it is not sufficient to prevent them from overheating when used for drawing arcs etc. They can potentially be used for short periods without additional ballast, but will pull a _lot_ of current, and definitely need additional ballast for continuous use.

196
Transformer (Iron Core) / Re: Microwave Oven Transformer
« on: February 06, 2020, 10:33:31 PM »
I'm going to have to start with the obligatory warning about microwave oven transformers - they are one of the most dangerous readily available electrical items, and can easily kill you with a single touch (they will easily push 100s of milliamps to amps through a human body). WAY more dangerous than almost any solid state tesla coil for example. If you're going to muck about with one treat it as a box of instant death!

As for ballasting, as a crude approximation you can just work out the reactance of the ballast (for an inductor this is simply 2*pi*f*L) and then use ohms law to work out the maximum current that could flow at a given voltage. This will not take into account any resistance or inductance of the transformer (microwave oven transformers, or MOTs, will have _some_ designed-in leakage inductance for ballasting, but not enough to stop them being overloaded when run straight on mains power), but is useful to get an upper bound.

197
The OCD at turn-on thing with the UD2.7 is caused by the UVLO IC. This design isn't the best (the UVLO stops working at very low voltages as it was just a quick hack based on what I had on hand at the time I implemented it, after which it was copied and added to the UD2.7 design), so I wouldn't sweat it as long as the driver actually works.

198
Yeah invisible harmonics were the only rational explanation I could think of, but I certainly couldn't see them in the range I tested (or obviously in the reference signal).

As for noise, I'm less worried about general pickup from ambient sources as I am about stuff from the high dv/dt switching events - my testing was done at 10mA/div whereas it would be used at much higher currents.

199
I took another look at the output waveform and it starts to look distorted above 4-5MHz for some reason (not quite sure how - was expecting things to be linear!), so I've updated my earlier post from "near 10MHz" to "a few MHz". An example of the distortion is attached below:

(orange is reference from pearson CT)

Not an issue when I'm planning to use it at <1MHz, but worth bearing in mind. Also it picks up a LOT of noise when not band limited to 20MHz, whereas the pearson picks up very little.

200
I definitely appreciated the daily physics trivia, thanks!

It took a little longer than planned, but I have done a quick check of the frequency response of a newer DIY CT, using a combination of a hand-wound toroid and a commercial 50:1 high(ish) frequency CT, both mounted on a PCB as shown in the photos below:




The shown CT board is missing it's connector and a common mode choke I put a footprint on the board for (but may not use/need), and is wound for 1000:1 (20:1 on the ferrite toroid, 50:1 on the Murata CT) for use in my 160mm coil, with the burden resistor located on the driver/controller board. Note that the holes bolt to the grounded heatsink, and the board is mounted on the coil for conveniently passing the bridge output wire through as shown below:


In an attempt to reduce noise coupling from the bridge output into the CT output I used a short piece of co-ax to pass the signal through the second of the cascaded CTs, with the shield (of ONE end only) connected to RF ground via the mounting holes on the PCB, and the central core carrying the current to be sensed. This can be seen on the later photos too.

The Murata CT I used is a 56050C (https://www.murata-ps.com/datasheet?/data/magnetics/kmp_5600.pdf), rated at 20-200kHz, 10A primary rating and a terminating resistance sized for 1V/turn. Using this in a DRSSTC even with a 10 or 20:1 prior step-down, it will definitely see more than 10A peak through the primary, but it's also being used at a higher than 20kHz frequency and with a lower burden resistor, so hopefully I avoid any saturation (heating shouldn't be an issue at DRSSTC duty cycles).

After your post and comment on the Triad 200kHz limit, I thought I'd measure it's frequency response like in my first post. I did this test using a CT wound for 500:1 (10 turns on the first stage), a 47ohm burden resistor (nearest match to a 50R system I could quickly find in my through hole resistor box) and in comparison to a Pearson 2788 CT plus a 20dB attenuator to roughly match the nominal gain between the two to ~0.05V/A driving a 50 ohm load (47R burden means the DIY one is a little over 0.5dB down from 0.05V/A).
The test setup is shown below (with a Pearson 4100, which was changed to the higher frequency capable 2788 once I saw how far it could go!):




Frequency response results (below) were significantly better than expected, nearly getting to a few MHz before everything started going pear shaped (I noticed the output waveform getting non-sinusoidal over about 4MHz, which obviously isn't obvious in a gain/phase plot and wasn't really what I expected from something I assumed would be linear!). I suspect that using the lowest turn-count part in the series (1/6th of the highest 300 turn option) helped out, as the bandwidth rating of 200kHz (the same as the triad one which you said went to pot above that) applies to all of them regardless of turn count.


P.S. If anyone is interested in the PCB files then I'm happy to share, but be warned that they'll be in Altium or something easily exportable from Altium and are obviously customised for my application (e.g. with connection via a S/STP patch cable to the control/driver board - a generic board should probably use screw terminals and ditch some of the other junk I have on there).

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Keybored
March 16, 2024, 08:46:20 PM
post Re: Bleeder resistor for MMC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
March 16, 2024, 08:39:24 PM
post Re: DRSSTC Questions
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Hydron
March 16, 2024, 08:21:44 PM

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