Author Topic: TVS Diode Questions (Rule of thumb maybe?)  (Read 1888 times)

Offline Andy

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
TVS Diode Questions (Rule of thumb maybe?)
« on: April 02, 2019, 10:04:00 AM »
Aloha Doooods!

Maybe I'm looking at all the wrong places but I can't find the information I assume I need so here I am.
I can't find any information on selecting a TVS voltage.
I understand that large portion is based off your stray inductance in your leads so each person may get a different outcome or drastically different outcome....
However, I was hoping there would be a general rule of thumb (assuming I planned carefully and kept things respectably close) for choosing
a TVS voltage based off the Bus Voltage...  Maybe plus ** volts or a typical 110% for example.
When I finish laying out my Bus I'm going to want to fire this pig up with or without those TVS.
So I would like to order some now and I noticed people don't mention them a lot and only refer to the Zeners typically.
I tried to reference peoples chosen TVS with their FET's datasheets and their bus voltage and only see they choose a voltage higher than their bus.
I put a couple project specs below. I have other questions I'm working on writing out and will post them once they are in a good order and detailed enough.

Mahalo for the help!

Current Project:
(I bought a little box of these 60N60C2D1's. So those will be what I'm using here)
I attached my JavaTC results as I have it built. (I ordered a 40cm x 10cm Toroid top load which lowers Fres down to about 220kHz)
My buss is 110 Volts through a 7.5Kva Transformer up to 270vac then through a full bridge rectifier.
I do want to be able to just Run the 110v rectified for initial testing on my variac but I know the Buss voltage will affect the MMC calculations but I'll probably just build interchangeable Bus setups to allow for 2 different bus voltages and put the transformer on the ass end of the variac for now.
(My issue is that I live in Hawaii so other than outdoors, my only room I can test this in is my living room.. .I learned a hard way trying to verify all my numbers in my lab which is a 10' Square room with a healthy size "L" shaped lab bench which is why I need to test it in my family room where I have a 110v and 240v mains outputs. But carrying out my 110-270v transformer that weighs 130 lbs Just sucks and I don't think I should toss in 240 volts with streamers jumping about 2' up to a ground wire hanging from my ceiling fan. Lol.)

Offline Mads Barnkob

  • Administrator
  • High Voltage Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1857
  • Karma: +49/-0
  • Denmark
    • View Profile
    • Kaizer Power Electronics
Re: TVS Diode Questions (Rule of thumb maybe?)
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2019, 01:47:01 PM »
Steve Ward wrote a little passage about this on his website: http://stevehv.4hv.org/drsstc_design.htm

Quote
Use Transient Voltage Suppressors (TVS) from collector to emitter of each IGBT.  The TVS should typically be the 1.5kW type.  I use strings of the 1.5KE220CA seriesing up as many as needed.  They are rated to stand off 220V, so for 600V IGBTs I use 2 in series.  For my 1200V IGBTs I use 4 in series for 880V clamping.  Note that the TVS do not start to clamp "hard" until you exceed their voltage rating by some %, check the spec sheet for the exact breakdown voltage.  Keep the TVS physically very close to the IGBT terminals.  The TVS are there to catch the very fast transients that the decoupling capacitors may not catch.  IGBTs do not tolerate overvoltage very well at all!

Use TVS or zeners on the IGBT gates.  If there is a voltage transient across the C-E junction, and the gate has some capacitance with respect to the collector, this transient will appear on the gate as well (its capacitively coupled through).  I use 30V TVS of the 600W type.  Be sure to get the bi-polar TVS.  Since we are driving the gates at their limitations, we need to be extra careful not to damage them, so TVS or zeners go a long way to protect them.
https://kaizerpowerelectronics.dk - Tesla coils, high voltage, pulse power, audio and general electronics
https://www.youtube.com/KaizerPowerElectronicsDk60/join - Please consider supporting the forum, websites and youtube channel!

Offline Andy

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: TVS Diode Questions (Rule of thumb maybe?)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 03:53:30 AM »
Steve Ward wrote a little passage about this on his website: http://stevehv.4hv.org/drsstc_design.htm

Use Transient Voltage Suppressors (TVS) from collector to emitter of each IGBT.  The TVS should typically be the 1.5kW type.  I use strings of the 1.5KE220CA seriesing up as many as needed.  They are rated to stand off 220V, so for 600V IGBTs I use 2 in series.  For my 1200V IGBTs I use 4 in series for 880V clamping.  Note that the TVS do not start to clamp "hard" until you exceed their voltage rating by some %, check the spec sheet for the exact breakdown voltage.  Keep the TVS physically very close to the IGBT terminals.  The TVS are there to catch the very fast transients that the decoupling capacitors may not catch.  IGBTs do not tolerate overvoltage very well at all!
Quote

Yes I've read this but don't feel I got the answers I'm looking for with that.

Quote
Use TVS or zeners on the IGBT gates.  If there is a voltage transient across the C-E junction, and the gate has some capacitance with respect to the collector, this transient will appear on the gate as well (its capacitively coupled through).  I use 30V TVS of the 600W type.  Be sure to get the bi-polar TVS.  Since we are driving the gates at their limitations, we need to be extra careful not to damage them, so TVS or zeners go a long way to protect them.

Well I'm using 30v 5w zeners tied anode to anode between G & E (I assume that's the same as bi-polar).  Which is easy to choose based on FET's the datasheet.
However, I also did research on the differences in Zeners and TVS and that's where this got frustrating..
I've found many voltage ratings of TVS, not just 220v.
So they TVS's can take that current on the rails but the transient voltage creates a max current that really depends on the voltage you choose and the lead inductance your layout has given meaning if I have a lot of lead inductance then I would need a higher peak current for the given wave period.
I'm very compulsive about learning all of this and why each components were chosen. TVS diodes could be used as Gate protection but based on my professors (youtube creators) there is a different application for each of them.
With that said, I understand no datasheet will give parameters directed to this unusual design. But I want to know how to calculate to order the perfect TVS for my project.
Not that the ones you referenced won't work or even that I won't buy that exact one..... but I feel this is a topic that's avoided probably due to not knowing how another person will build their bus and the inductance given. But there has to be a way to narrow down the actual values needed.
and since the TVS are tied C to E, which is only Half bus voltage on a half bridge, would that mean I should choose half of my bus voltage TVS for each FET?


Lastly- to clarify, bi-directional is the same as if I tie 2 anodes together of the uni-directional type correct? So I've made a bi-directional Zener with my 2 uni-directional zeners? And would the TVS work in the same way?

Here are a couple videos I watched. Maybe this doesn't apply to this design but inductance in excess leads can give an excess surge current.. agree? Meaning I should choose TVS with voltage and max surge current for my specific bus layout/voltage while choosing a Zener based on the max voltage tolerance of the Fet's Gate.

/>
/>

High Voltage Forum

Re: TVS Diode Questions (Rule of thumb maybe?)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2019, 03:53:30 AM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Mains Staccato / SGTC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
Today at 10:25:10 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
Today at 07:54:59 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Rafft
Today at 06:44:04 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
Today at 12:31:43 AM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dbach
December 06, 2021, 11:51:07 PM
post Re: profdc9 ud2.7c tht question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
December 06, 2021, 07:48:31 PM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
December 06, 2021, 03:32:15 PM
post profdc9 ud2.7c tht question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
costas_p
December 06, 2021, 01:57:36 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
December 06, 2021, 11:07:28 AM
post Re: What driver to use for first DRSSTC build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 06, 2021, 04:17:35 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Maju
December 05, 2021, 11:58:51 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
December 05, 2021, 11:21:11 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Maju
December 05, 2021, 08:53:57 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
December 05, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
post Go Big or Go Home
[Static Electricity]
abstruse1
December 05, 2021, 06:06:28 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
December 05, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
post Re: Nokia Siemens 3G Flexi 2100MHz 50W Amplifier Teardown
[Radio Frequency]
Mads Barnkob
December 05, 2021, 12:02:05 PM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dbach
December 05, 2021, 12:20:13 AM
post [Ebay find]: 6x Infineon Fast IGBT Modul FZ400R12KE4 1200V 400A Semitrans
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
Mads Barnkob
December 04, 2021, 11:35:01 PM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
December 04, 2021, 11:02:35 PM
post Re: Nokia Siemens 3G Flexi 2100MHz 50W Amplifier Teardown
[Radio Frequency]
Da_Stier
December 04, 2021, 01:16:47 PM
post Nokia Siemens 3G Flexi 2100MHz 50W Amplifier Teardown
[Radio Frequency]
Mads Barnkob
December 04, 2021, 09:03:55 AM
post Re: Dissimilar caps for Marx or CW?
[Voltage Multipliers]
Mads Barnkob
December 04, 2021, 08:42:26 AM
post Dissimilar caps for Marx or CW?
[Voltage Multipliers]
abstruse1
December 04, 2021, 05:39:32 AM
post Re: Looking to build by first DRSSTC as a high voltage beginner
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
December 03, 2021, 07:27:09 PM
post Re: help with finding resonant frequency
[Beginners]
HVuser
December 03, 2021, 04:43:39 AM
post Re: Looking to build by first DRSSTC as a high voltage beginner
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
futurist
December 03, 2021, 01:37:46 AM
post Re: Practical limitations in size for Marx or CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
abstruse1
December 02, 2021, 11:35:39 PM
post Re: Practical limitations in size for Marx or CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
December 02, 2021, 09:53:13 PM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 02, 2021, 05:10:30 AM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
December 02, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
post Re: Syntherrupter - A Feature-rich, Polyphonic Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
December 02, 2021, 12:47:10 AM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 01, 2021, 10:30:50 PM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
December 01, 2021, 09:10:11 PM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 01, 2021, 06:36:14 AM
post Re: DRSSTC build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 30, 2021, 08:10:17 PM
post DRSSTC build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
balazs
November 30, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 30, 2021, 06:23:03 AM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 30, 2021, 05:58:42 AM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 30, 2021, 05:35:58 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 30, 2021, 01:50:18 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
futurist
November 30, 2021, 01:19:18 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 30, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
post gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
November 29, 2021, 11:45:44 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 29, 2021, 10:52:43 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Intra
November 29, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
November 29, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Netzpfuscher
November 29, 2021, 12:15:12 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 29, 2021, 12:26:28 AM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
November 29, 2021, 12:07:30 AM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 11:58:24 PM
post GDT (Gate Drive Transformer) tutorial
[Beginners]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 11:40:56 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 28, 2021, 10:21:11 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
johnnyzoo
November 28, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 28, 2021, 08:13:08 PM
post Re: Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
futurist
November 28, 2021, 06:12:44 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 28, 2021, 04:48:04 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
PowerTech
November 28, 2021, 03:16:11 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 28, 2021, 09:36:10 AM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
plasma
November 28, 2021, 05:32:16 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 04:28:33 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 28, 2021, 02:19:00 AM
post Re: Where to buy DIY or home made capacitor book(s)?
[Capacitor Banks]
huntergroundmind
November 28, 2021, 01:58:12 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 12:53:27 AM
post Re: Driverless SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 12:32:09 AM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 12:16:04 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 27, 2021, 11:42:08 PM
post Re: Hi! 811 A tesa coil
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 11:32:12 PM
post Re: Hi! 811 A tesa coil
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
jpvvv123
November 27, 2021, 11:09:43 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
paulj
November 27, 2021, 10:06:41 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
PowerTech
November 27, 2021, 09:40:34 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
November 27, 2021, 08:51:05 PM
post Re: Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
Da_Stier
November 27, 2021, 08:09:50 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
PowerTech
November 27, 2021, 06:00:42 PM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 27, 2021, 05:04:46 PM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 04:45:14 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:59:37 AM
post Re: Contest of motor slowness, or lowness of voltage?
[Science, Research and News In Other Fields Than Electronics]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
post Re: FPS1000HD unboxing and first impression
[High Speed Filming]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:51:01 AM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:47:23 AM
post Re: Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:37:57 AM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
post Re: BrOdin coil - High power Big sparks!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
patracy
November 27, 2021, 06:06:59 AM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 05:27:27 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 03:19:55 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 02:31:46 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 02:22:20 AM
post Driverless SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
bismallah
November 26, 2021, 11:59:27 PM
post Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
Da_Stier
November 26, 2021, 11:27:47 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
klugesmith
November 26, 2021, 11:17:55 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 26, 2021, 08:24:39 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 26, 2021, 07:48:07 PM
post Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
November 26, 2021, 07:44:25 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
November 26, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
plasma
November 26, 2021, 05:40:37 PM
post Re: "Exploding" water
[Capacitor Banks]
MRMILSTAR
November 26, 2021, 04:39:07 PM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 26, 2021, 04:31:20 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Intra
November 26, 2021, 03:52:08 PM
post Re: "Exploding" water
[Capacitor Banks]
johnf
November 26, 2021, 09:17:07 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
paulj
November 26, 2021, 08:45:34 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal