Author Topic: Phase Lead using a RC circuit  (Read 1964 times)

Offline profdc9

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« on: February 23, 2018, 04:47:15 PM »
I was looking at using a potentiometer with a capacitor to adjust phase lead.  I attached a simulation of the circuit, as well as a simulation of the conventional inductor circuit.  It seems to perform similarly, except that the phase lead decreases with frequency rather than increase of course.

Dan



Offline profdc9

  • High Voltage Engineer
  • ****
  • Posts: 262
  • Karma: +14/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2018, 05:21:25 PM »
Sorry for the double post, but there is a slight improvement here.


Offline Chrisader

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2021, 11:46:26 PM »
Hi!
Did You check these simulations in reality?
Does results are quite similar like results of simulations?

Offline davekni

  • High Voltage Expert
  • ******
  • Posts: 1388
  • Karma: +67/-0
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2021, 01:24:51 AM »
Yes, potentiometer adjustment of phase lead is possible.  Given the difficulty some encounter finding suitable adjustable inductors, I'm surprised potentiometer circuits aren't used more often.

This circuit looks workable.  However, it is better to have phase lead increase with increasing frequency.  The ideal is constant time lead to compensate for roughly-constant time delay in the driver and H-Bridge.  Even the normal phase-lead circuit isn't quite constant-time.  Phase lead doesn't quite double at twice the frequency.

The simplest way to make the normal UD2.7 phase-lead potentiometer-adjustable is by trading places of the 51-ohm CT burden resistor R1 with phase-lead inductor L1, so L1 goes to ground.  Then change R1 for a potentiometer, or add a potentiometer across R1, and use the potentiometer center lead to drive the rest of the circuit.

It is also possible to make a capacitor phase-lead circuit where phase increases with frequency.  Easiest with an opamp included.

I built an LRC phase-lead circuit for my DRSSTC that had roughly constant time-lead over my 50-80kHz frequency range.  However, it has a disadvantage of amplitude response peaking, around 120kHz if I recall correctly.  So, I don't recommend copying my circuit.
David Knierim

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2021, 03:16:04 AM »
The SimpleDriver UD that Eugene makes and sells has a combination L/R and L/C phase adjustment circuit.
It has worked well in two coils I made, a phase shift QCW and a small DRSSTC.

The schematic is here;

http://bsvi.ru/projects/SimpleDriver2/SimpleDriver_2.3.pdf

And the circuit description here;

https://tqfp.org/simple-tesla/simpledriver-v23-in-english.html

By the way, profdc9, thanks very much for the interrupter and UD circuits you made. I found them VERY helpful.

Cheers.


Offline davekni

  • High Voltage Expert
  • ******
  • Posts: 1388
  • Karma: +67/-0
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2021, 05:38:26 AM »
Quote
SimpleDriver UD that Eugene makes and sells has a combination L/R and L/C phase adjustment circuit.
I'm not spotting any significant capacitor contribution to phase lead.  Looks much like UD2.7 with fixed phase lead.
David Knierim

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2021, 03:59:16 PM »
David,


When I tuned the phase for my QCW I used the R/C network. It has a trim-pot, R13.

On my latest DRSSTC the trim pot did adjust the phase but not enough. So I changed
out the resistor is series with the inductor to rough tune the phase and then used
the R/C to fine tune the phase.

Both the L/R and R/C networks interact with a large chip (micro processor, ASIC, ?) so I
don't know what is going on from a circuit point of view.*

Eugene also describes this two stage tuning in his manual for the SimpleDriver. So I still claim
(from both documentation and use) that there are two phase tuning sections in this driver.

Whether they would be useful in a more conventional UD is above my pay grade.

Cheers.

* EDIT: It's a PLA.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2021, 10:51:09 PM by alan sailer »

Offline davekni

  • High Voltage Expert
  • ******
  • Posts: 1388
  • Karma: +67/-0
  • Physicist, engineer (electronic), and hobbiest
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2021, 04:53:53 AM »
Alan,

Thank you for the explanation.  I hadn't looked past the input stage where L1 adds phase-lead.  The R19 circuit is adding delay.  Thus L1 needs to add excess phase-lead, then R19... removes some by adding delay.

Adding extra phase-lead and then removing some with delay works, but has a disadvantage.  Ideal phase lead would be constant time independent of frequency (to compensate for fixed driver and bridge delays).  L1 phase lead as measured in time (ns of lead) changes some with frequency.  Making L1 larger (more lead) increases the time change with frequency.  Thus any circuit that uses extra phase-lead and then removes some with delay ends up having more change with frequency.  May be fine.  I'm a perfectionist, so avoid solutions that are sub-optimal.
David Knierim

Offline alan sailer

  • High Voltage Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
  • Karma: +8/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2021, 03:40:27 PM »
David,

Happy that I'm not crazy. In electronics perfectionism is not any thing I can aspire to.

Cheers.

Offline Chrisader

  • High Voltage Enthusiast
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2021, 10:45:39 PM »


In mentioned schematic what exactly is responsible for phase lead?
After C1 is marked where is lead but what makes it?
Only C1 and his capacity?
C1 with R4 and their relationship of values?
R3 and C2 paralelly seems to make phase lag, because we have already phase lead after C1?
What for is R7 and why their resistance is so large?
Schematic seems to be matched for single power supply comparator, so it shouldn't be problem to fit for dual power supply comparator?

I want to make simulations in Spice and need to know what in this schematic is necessary to make phase lead...
How simulations are credible in that case where we looking for proper phase lead? We cannot have in reality get ideal conditions of some things like current source, parasitic properties of components etc...

High Voltage Forum

Re: Phase Lead using a RC circuit
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2021, 10:45:39 PM »

 


* Recent Topics and Posts

post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
Today at 07:54:59 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Rafft
Today at 06:44:04 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
Today at 12:31:43 AM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dbach
December 06, 2021, 11:51:07 PM
post Re: profdc9 ud2.7c tht question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
alan sailer
December 06, 2021, 07:48:31 PM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
December 06, 2021, 03:32:15 PM
post profdc9 ud2.7c tht question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
costas_p
December 06, 2021, 01:57:36 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
December 06, 2021, 11:07:28 AM
post Re: What driver to use for first DRSSTC build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 06, 2021, 04:17:35 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Maju
December 05, 2021, 11:58:51 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
December 05, 2021, 11:21:11 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Maju
December 05, 2021, 08:53:57 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
December 05, 2021, 08:27:13 PM
post Go Big or Go Home
[Static Electricity]
abstruse1
December 05, 2021, 06:06:28 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
December 05, 2021, 12:35:17 PM
post Re: Nokia Siemens 3G Flexi 2100MHz 50W Amplifier Teardown
[Radio Frequency]
Mads Barnkob
December 05, 2021, 12:02:05 PM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
dbach
December 05, 2021, 12:20:13 AM
post [Ebay find]: 6x Infineon Fast IGBT Modul FZ400R12KE4 1200V 400A Semitrans
[Sell / Buy / Trade]
Mads Barnkob
December 04, 2021, 11:35:01 PM
post Re: MidiStick V2.0: Next gen tesla coil interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
TMaxElectronics
December 04, 2021, 11:02:35 PM
post Re: Nokia Siemens 3G Flexi 2100MHz 50W Amplifier Teardown
[Radio Frequency]
Da_Stier
December 04, 2021, 01:16:47 PM
post Nokia Siemens 3G Flexi 2100MHz 50W Amplifier Teardown
[Radio Frequency]
Mads Barnkob
December 04, 2021, 09:03:55 AM
post Re: Dissimilar caps for Marx or CW?
[Voltage Multipliers]
Mads Barnkob
December 04, 2021, 08:42:26 AM
post Dissimilar caps for Marx or CW?
[Voltage Multipliers]
abstruse1
December 04, 2021, 05:39:32 AM
post Re: Looking to build by first DRSSTC as a high voltage beginner
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
December 03, 2021, 07:27:09 PM
post Re: help with finding resonant frequency
[Beginners]
HVuser
December 03, 2021, 04:43:39 AM
post Re: Looking to build by first DRSSTC as a high voltage beginner
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
futurist
December 03, 2021, 01:37:46 AM
post Re: Practical limitations in size for Marx or CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
abstruse1
December 02, 2021, 11:35:39 PM
post Re: Practical limitations in size for Marx or CW
[Voltage Multipliers]
MRMILSTAR
December 02, 2021, 09:53:13 PM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 02, 2021, 05:10:30 AM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
December 02, 2021, 04:58:53 AM
post Re: Syntherrupter - A Feature-rich, Polyphonic Interrupter
[Computers, Microcontrollers, Programmable Logic, Interfaces and Displays]
Max
December 02, 2021, 12:47:10 AM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 01, 2021, 10:30:50 PM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
December 01, 2021, 09:10:11 PM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
December 01, 2021, 06:36:14 AM
post Re: DRSSTC build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 30, 2021, 08:10:17 PM
post DRSSTC build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
balazs
November 30, 2021, 06:55:58 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 30, 2021, 06:23:03 AM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 30, 2021, 05:58:42 AM
post Re: gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 30, 2021, 05:35:58 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 30, 2021, 01:50:18 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
futurist
November 30, 2021, 01:19:18 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 30, 2021, 12:07:59 AM
post gate drive transformer method
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
thedoc298
November 29, 2021, 11:45:44 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 29, 2021, 10:52:43 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Intra
November 29, 2021, 03:15:23 PM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
November 29, 2021, 03:08:58 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Netzpfuscher
November 29, 2021, 12:15:12 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 29, 2021, 12:26:28 AM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
November 29, 2021, 12:07:30 AM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 11:58:24 PM
post GDT (Gate Drive Transformer) tutorial
[Beginners]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 11:40:56 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 28, 2021, 10:21:11 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
johnnyzoo
November 28, 2021, 10:05:40 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 28, 2021, 08:13:08 PM
post Re: Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
futurist
November 28, 2021, 06:12:44 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 28, 2021, 04:48:04 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
PowerTech
November 28, 2021, 03:16:11 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 28, 2021, 09:36:10 AM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
plasma
November 28, 2021, 05:32:16 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 04:28:33 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 28, 2021, 02:19:00 AM
post Re: Where to buy DIY or home made capacitor book(s)?
[Capacitor Banks]
huntergroundmind
November 28, 2021, 01:58:12 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 12:53:27 AM
post Re: Driverless SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 12:32:09 AM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
davekni
November 28, 2021, 12:16:04 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 27, 2021, 11:42:08 PM
post Re: Hi! 811 A tesa coil
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 11:32:12 PM
post Re: Hi! 811 A tesa coil
[Vacuum Tube Tesla Coils (VTTC)]
jpvvv123
November 27, 2021, 11:09:43 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
paulj
November 27, 2021, 10:06:41 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
PowerTech
November 27, 2021, 09:40:34 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
davekni
November 27, 2021, 08:51:05 PM
post Re: Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
Da_Stier
November 27, 2021, 08:09:50 PM
post Re: SG3525 push pull snubber calculation
[Transformer (Ferrite Core)]
PowerTech
November 27, 2021, 06:00:42 PM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 27, 2021, 05:04:46 PM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 04:45:14 PM
post Re: Welcome new members, come say hello and tell a little about yourself :)
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:59:37 AM
post Re: Contest of motor slowness, or lowness of voltage?
[Science, Research and News In Other Fields Than Electronics]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:52:59 AM
post Re: FPS1000HD unboxing and first impression
[High Speed Filming]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:51:01 AM
post Re: Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:47:23 AM
post Re: Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:37:57 AM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
Mads Barnkob
November 27, 2021, 07:21:43 AM
post Re: BrOdin coil - High power Big sparks!
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
patracy
November 27, 2021, 06:06:59 AM
post Re: Someone built Big TC
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 05:27:27 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 03:19:55 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 02:31:46 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
304er
November 27, 2021, 02:22:20 AM
post Driverless SSTC
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
bismallah
November 26, 2021, 11:59:27 PM
post Infrastructure and Architecture
[General Chat]
Da_Stier
November 26, 2021, 11:27:47 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
klugesmith
November 26, 2021, 11:17:55 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 26, 2021, 08:24:39 PM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
davekni
November 26, 2021, 07:48:07 PM
post Help on my "first" SSTC (LabCoatz SSTC 2.0)- Popping transistors
[Solid State Tesla Coils (SSTC)]
TiagoBS
November 26, 2021, 07:44:25 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
davekni
November 26, 2021, 06:58:16 PM
post Re: 60hz synchronous motor on 50hz?
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
plasma
November 26, 2021, 05:40:37 PM
post Re: "Exploding" water
[Capacitor Banks]
MRMILSTAR
November 26, 2021, 04:39:07 PM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
MRMILSTAR
November 26, 2021, 04:31:20 PM
post Re: Next Gen DRSSTC
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
Intra
November 26, 2021, 03:52:08 PM
post Re: "Exploding" water
[Capacitor Banks]
johnf
November 26, 2021, 09:17:07 AM
post Re: Kind of old single piece of glass plate capacitor
[Spark Gap Tesla Coils (SGTC)]
paulj
November 26, 2021, 08:45:34 AM
post Re: Some Starting Questions About My New DRSSTC ???
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
ItsChloeUwU
November 26, 2021, 06:31:56 AM

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal