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Messages - Davide
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1
« on: August 24, 2022, 11:33:00 PM »
Hi Anders, thanks for these info. Yes also the imaging system has a strong effect on image sharpness. In my case it is the basic setup: phosphor screen + dslr. Any advice on how to improve that is welcome As you said, magnification is also present in my setup, as I’m trying to perform very basic ct-scan, so the sample needs the space to rotate (I’m using roughly a magnification of 1.5 - 2). This is an example picture (camera lens): This instead was taken with the object (a remote) close to the phosphor screen: I think it's a little sharper, but it's also hard to compare them. Your images look really sharp, I guess the circuit board was placed right against the film. In this case the focal spot has little effect on image sharpness as magnification is close to 1. Anyway it looks good for a 0,7mm focal spot. I searched for used mammography tubes, but it looks like they are really hard to find on eBay, at least in Italy. As for microfocus tubes, I believe industrial grade ones are really expensive (talking of thousands of € or $). Do cheaper microfocus tubes exist (other than the ones at the link in my previous post)? If you know of any source of x-ray tubes other than ebay, or if you know specific ebay sellers, let me know. Thanks
2
« on: August 01, 2022, 10:21:53 PM »
Hi everyone! I recently built my x-ray machine using a "standard" dental x-ray tube bought on Alibaba. This tube has a focal spot size of 0.4mm. I works ok, but I would like to have higher sharpness in the images. As sharpness is partially due to the focal spot size, I started searching for tubes with smaller spots, but the only thing I found is another Alibaba seller who charges more than 700$ for a tube with a 50um focal spot size. The only other source of x-ray tubes was the site "sovtube", which unfortunately doesn't sell them anymore. The tube that would be great for my needs is like this: http://www.sovtube.com/x-ray-and-geiger-tubes/315-bs5-w.htmlIt is not necessary to have a 6um focal spot, but something under 50um would be nice So if anyone knows of some site that still sells tubes like this, please let me know Thank you!
3
« on: July 10, 2021, 07:01:58 PM »
I've never done that and I don't have the equipment to do that, so I was thinking to use a microwave oven transformer instead of the neon power supply. An MOT could work, or a pair in center-grounded series. However, their line-frequency (50Hz or 60Hz) creates two problems. First is shock hazard. Line frequency is much more lethal than 20-25kHz. People die with MOT mistakes, including one man here in my little town (Wilsonville, OR, USA) about 10 years ago. Second issue is that much larger capacitors are required in the voltage multiplier.
I don't have any experience with XRay tubes. Unless they present a relatively constant-voltage load like a neon sign does, it will be tricky to get a correct and stable output voltage from a modern 20-25kHz neon sign supply.
There are a few AC-output flyback transformers available on EBay etc. Search here for links. You would still need to drive it yourself, perhaps with a ZVS such as the common small induction heaters.
Thank you for your answers, and sorry for the delay in mine, I've been a bit busy lately. Yes maybe the MOT is too dangerous for this project and for my small experience, however I tried to search for AC flybacks but I could only find very old TV AC flybacks, and I read that these will not last very long. The only "modern" AC transformer that I could find is this: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/32863627116.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.3fc14c4dfJY2WF I think, as you said, that it needs to be driven with a ZVS circuit. I still have to try it, but I think that maybe it outputs too little power. Are there any alternatives to these? Yes probably the tube load would pull down the voltage. So, from what I understand, even using the neon power supply, if I start the filament before the HV circuit, it should give a lower voltage from the beginning. In this case I wouldn't risk to "burn" the tube. Right?
I'm trying to understand what's the most stable, reliable and safe way to generate the "moderately high" AC voltage to feed into the multiplier.
Correct, as long as the filament is warm, the tube will draw current when the anode voltage is applied, keeping the voltage from rising too far.
I think you are on the right track with these solid state neon supplies. Out of curiosity I ordered some myself and I'm really impressed with the performance. They seem to output more than the marked voltage under light loading, probably to help ignite stubborn neon tubes. Even the small 3 kV variants can start an arc at around 1 cm, and the 10 kV unit easily starts an arc across a 3 cm gap.
I did a quick teardown of one of the neon supplies, the much smaller HB-C02TE. It's based on the classic self-oscillating BJT half bridge with a saturating base drive transformer, with a diac for start-up and a SCR sensing the primary current for output overvoltage protection. The circuit starts oscillating at around 45 V DC in, and runs down to 15 V before dropping out of oscillation, which is pretty impressive for such a simple circuit. Output current tracks input voltage nicely, so by feeding these from a variable input voltage you can also limit the output voltage.
Thanks for experimenting with the same type of power supply that I tried! I actually tried to follow your suggestions: I switched on the filament first, and then I slowly raised the input voltage of the neon power supply with a potentiometer (this one: https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B01LXLU3SD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I was able to produce some small x-ray output! (detected by the geiger counter). This is a small success for me , but this setup still needs some improvements: the output of the tube is very low and can't be seen on the intensifier screen. I can't raise the voltage too much otherwise I will get arcing outside the tube. I could put the whole tube in oil, but considering the length (almost 10cm) of the arcs that are capable to strike in the air surrounding the tube, I'm worried that if I put it in oil the arcs will strike inside the tube, ruining it. May I try one of the smaller power supplies (3kV or 5kV) of this type? Side note: I tried to measure the voltage with a resistive divider (1Gohm and 1Mohm resistors), and when I raised the voltage the voltmeter got up to maximum 20kV, then an arc striked across the legs (5 cm apart) of the bigger resistor of the divider. The 20kV reading is similar to what I got from the cheap high voltage meter from ebay, so it seems like it's correct. But how is it possible to have a 5 cm arc with just 20kV? There must be something wrong in how I measure the voltage, or maybe there is a quick voltage spike that is too short to be detected by the meters and that causes the arc? Thanks a lot for your help to both of you!!
4
« on: May 24, 2021, 10:30:52 PM »
Thanks both Anders and Davekni for your answers. Series-connected TV flyback transformers might work for a short time, but insulation between primary and base of secondary winding on the second one will fail before long.
There are several XRay projects described on this forum. I suggest looking at those. I believe all use ferrite-core transformers feeding CW multipliers. In other words, like your initial design, but with AC sources of more fixed-voltage than a neon-sign supply.
Ok, I understand that the second flyback would work at a much higher voltage than what it is designed for, so probably it won't last long. I took a look at some other projects on this forum, and I saw that "neukyhm" designed it's own transformer by winding the wire himself. Unfortunately I've never done that and I don't have the equipment to do that, so I was thinking to use a microwave oven transformer instead of the neon power supply. It sohuld generate around 2000V AC, so I would just need to add some stages to the multiplier that I already have. My only concern in this case is that a MOT could provide even too much power. 12 cm sparks between sharp points should be somewhere in the 80 - 90 kV range, so that makes sense. I'd strongly recommend building a basic resistive divider to measure the actual voltage, both to get reproducible results when taking x-rays, and also for the sake of safety for the tube and operator (X-ray shielding efficiency goes down drastically with increasing voltage). Note that uncompensated dividers are only useful for DC and LF measurements, to get accurate AC voltage measurements is more difficult as stray capacitance in the divider usually starts to dominate over a few hundred hertz.
Probably the loading from the x-ray tube will pull the voltage down to a more reasonable value. Make sure to power the filament before you fire up the HV supply, and regulate the filament current to get the correct anode voltage. This works because the tube will pull more anode current as you increase the filament temperature, causing the output voltage of the multiplier to drop. The current will depend on the output impedance of the SSNST and your multiplier, but this can be compensated for by adjusting the exposure time. Having a consistent voltage is the most important anyways, as this will affect the x-ray penetration and therefore image contrast.
Yes I bought a cheap high voltage meter from ebay, but I doesn't give realistic results. I will try building the resistive divider. Yes probably the tube load would pull down the voltage. So, from what I understand, even using the neon power supply, if I start the filament before the HV circuit, it should give a lower voltage from the beginning. In this case I wouldn't risk to "burn" the tube. Right? I'm trying to understand what's the most stable, reliable and safe way to generate the "moderately high" AC voltage to feed into the multiplier. Thanks
5
« on: May 16, 2021, 08:08:29 AM »
Hi Davekni, thank you for your prompt response I didn't know that those power supplies were designed to output constant current and dropped the voltage right after starting. So maybe the 12cm long arcs that it produced were due to the fact that the starting voltage may not be carefully controlled. Moreover, as you said, spark length isn't the best way to measure voltage. Considering these new informations, I'm thinking that this setup is not the right way to build the x-ray power supply that I need. Would you recommend onther way to generate the high voltage needed to power a 70kV x-ray tube? (which is this one by the way: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/50-60-70kv-portable-xray-machine_62189076244.html?spm=a2700.9114905.0.0.oHHIuM). I'm currently thinking of two TV flybacks with the secondaries in series. Thanks again for your help!
6
« on: May 09, 2021, 02:17:33 PM »
Hi everyone! I'm an high voltage noob so I hope my question is not too obvious. What I'm trying to make is a power supply to power an x-ray tube, and to do that I decided to connect the output of a Neon power supply (this one: https://it.aliexpress.com/item/4000151726656.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6a9d4c4dNXmRFC) to a CW voltage multiplier made of 3 stages. The output of the Neon power supply is 10kV AC, so, with three stages of multiplication I should have around 84kV DC, as the CW calculator says (link: https://www.extremeelectronics.co.uk/calculators/cw-voltage-calculator/). However, when I try to strike an arc between the two terminals of the voltage multiplier, no matter how much I increase their distance, the arc will always be able to jump, reaching over 12cm of lenght! Moreover, if I move the terminals too far apart, the arc will strike inside the oil where the voltage multiplier is! Considering this, I concluded that this setup is actually producing way more than 84kV: the problem is that I don't know why. My concern is that if I will connect this source to the x-ray tube (which is rated to 70kV) it will damage it. I know I'm probably doing something wrong in the peak voltage calculation, so if someone could adress me on the right way it would be great! Also if you think this setup is not the right way to build an x-ray tube power supply feel free to comment as I'm also considering other alternatives (e.g. flybacks). I attached the images of the Neon power supply, of the long arc, and of the Cockcroft Walton calculator. Thank you very much in advance!
7
« on: April 03, 2021, 10:55:32 AM »
Hello, for amateur radiography, take the two terminals of the filament (by testing the resistance) and connect one to the ground of your high voltage power supply.
don't forget that even limited in power, radiation is very dangerous.
My 40kv tube produces 13 Sv / h
Hi! Thank you for your answer I only have one concern about this: if I connect it this way, can I power the filament directly with a DC-DC step down converter (current limited) or will this connection damage the DC-DC converter? I'm asking this because in this way the ground of HV part of the circuit will be directly connected with the DC-DC converter. Yes I'm aware of the danger involved with radiation, I have many lead panels that I will use as shelding, and a Geiger counter to measure radiation. Thanks for your advice
8
« on: March 21, 2021, 02:21:27 PM »
Hello, Great project, a lot of work I bet. This very night, actually 5 minutes ago i was able to get my first radiograpf after months of trying using that very same tube, 70-G4. It seems something is wrong with earth and filament connection. My does not look as good as yours but hopefully you can point me in right direction, what am I doing wrong? I am miles from that sharp, crisp image you are getting as you can see. Any suggestions? Thanks
//OCV
Hi Agent Smith, check out my connections:
The two black wires that goes to the multiplier are from the transformer. The small red wire that goes to the tube is the filament and I have the tube's blue wire grounded via the thicker red wire that goes out the box. The tube's black wire is the grid and you have grounded it. It's recommended to not ground the grid, but to make it a bit more negative than the filament, how? with that resistor you see in the picture.
I suggest that you use the red wire to power the filament with +2.50 to +2.75 V, ground the blue wire and connect the black one to the cathode of you HV PSU. Once you've done this, it's time to common reference everything, and you will do this with a 47kOhm resistor placed between the cathode (negative pole) of you HV PSU (where it's also connected the tube's black wire) and the tube's red wire, just like I have in the picture. This way you will have the tube connected as the datasheet says , although they use different colors.
Also, if your HV PSU is unrectified, it's a very good idea to place one of those big 20kV 10nf capacitor between the tube's black wire and ground, it will stabilize voltage a lot and improve results. This won't help that much if your HV PSU is rectified like a TV flyback.
Note: of course, the cathode of the PSU you are using to power the filament has to be grounded too.
Edit: I hope this helps.
Edit2: typo in the capacitor, it's 20kv 10nF, like these.
The dielectric oil is very recommended.
PS: where did you get the tube?
Hi! First of all many congratulations for this project, really well done and also clearly explained. I'm trying to build a similar setup and I bought an x-ray tube (model: HBJ11) on Alibaba, it is a 70kv 0.4mm focal spot tube, similar to yours. However I'm struggling to understand how to properly wire it. I saw that you connect a 47kohm resistor between the grid of the tube (black wire) and one of the two filament wires (blue wire). However if I look at my tube, it seems like the grid and one of the filament legs are already connected with a wire inside the tube (see attached picture). Do you think that I should wire anyway my tube the same as yours? I checked the specs sheet and it only says to "observe the connection diagram and the grid resistor value", but it doesn't say anything else about this resistor Sorry about the long question and thank you in advance.
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Re: Drsstc voltage spike question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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flyingperson23 April 10, 2024, 05:35:14 PM
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Medium Drsstc question
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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unrealcrafter2 April 10, 2024, 03:07:02 PM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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Michelle_ April 10, 2024, 03:42:12 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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Michelle_ April 10, 2024, 03:41:04 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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sky-guided April 10, 2024, 02:50:23 AM
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Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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Unrealeous April 10, 2024, 01:32:17 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
OmGigaTron April 10, 2024, 01:26:29 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
OmGigaTron April 10, 2024, 01:18:35 AM
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Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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Mads Barnkob April 09, 2024, 07:34:19 PM
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Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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flyingperson23 April 09, 2024, 06:14:27 PM
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Re: CM400 Induction Heater
[Electronic Circuits]
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markus April 09, 2024, 06:08:53 PM
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Re: DRSSTC V1 using BSM1500
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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markus April 09, 2024, 05:15:19 PM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
Michelle_ April 09, 2024, 05:11:04 PM
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Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
Benjamin Lockhart April 09, 2024, 06:32:16 AM
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DRSSTC V1 using BSM150
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
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Unrealeous April 09, 2024, 04:04:47 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
alan sailer April 09, 2024, 03:27:11 AM
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Re: Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
davekni April 09, 2024, 03:25:47 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
OmGigaTron April 09, 2024, 03:01:40 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
sky-guided April 09, 2024, 02:46:46 AM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
OmGigaTron April 08, 2024, 09:32:57 PM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
OmGigaTron April 08, 2024, 09:25:11 PM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
alan sailer April 08, 2024, 08:45:15 PM
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Re: Plasma Torid - Class E Self Resonant Dual/Stereo - Plasma Torid Build
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
OmGigaTron April 08, 2024, 08:24:13 PM
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Big Coil Big Sparks
[Dual Resonant Solid State Tesla coils (DRSSTC)]
|
alan sailer April 08, 2024, 04:02:48 PM
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