Author Topic: noob trying to build a voltage doubler  (Read 2417 times)

Offline realsceincetist

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noob trying to build a voltage doubler
« on: December 17, 2020, 03:09:05 AM »
I would like to build a voltage doubler that outputs 480V pulsed DC.  If I build a Villard circuit with the capacitor and diode from a microwave and attach it to a 240V outlet will I get the results I want?  I have been trying to use a SPICE program simulate the circuit but haven't gotten it to work.


I don't have a lot of experience with electronics and it never really came very easy to me but I've been trying to learn more electronics for some materials science projects I'm doing.  this project is me experimenting with an electrochemical process for making super hard ceramic coatings called plasma electrolytic oxidation.  I have gotten some plasma using a MOT with aluminum electrodes barely touching salt water.  Unfortunately this trips my houses breaker and if I increase the resistance of the cell(by making the electrodes smaller, increasing the distance between them, decreasing electrolyte concentration etc) then all I get is electrolysis with no plasma (I think this is because the ratio of current to electrode surface area is too low).  I would like to be able to have larger electrodes running for longer time, and that is why I think pulsed dc with a max voltage of 480V would be the best (the literature suggests pulsed DC is better than a smoothed source but I am not sure why).

I am aware of some of the safety risks of this process, but because I am new and to be sure I have got all the important ones I will list the risks that I know of and my plans to deal with them. 
  • obvious electrical burns/shock risks possibly from the electrolyte as well as any of the circuits (the circuit it always enclosed)
  • capacitors can explode when used incorrectly, and can store charge (I discharged the capacitors)
  • electrolysis of brine creates chlorine and hydrogen gas, these gasses are explosive when mixed, and chlorine is toxic and potentially carcinogenic (the amounts produced are small and I have enough ventilation it)
  • the plasma produced is very bright and could damage eyesight (welding helmet)

Offline davekni

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Re: noob trying to build a voltage doubler
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2020, 04:06:58 AM »
Fun project!  I did almost exactly the same thing a few years ago after first learning about electric discharge anodization.  I think commercial systems use much higher voltage and current for shorter pulses.  However, what I built was what you are describing.  I used a 2:1 isolation transformer to get 240V 60Hz from a 120V outlet and provide isolation for a bit of added safety.  My circuit was like yours, but without C2.  So it is just C1, D1, and D2, with the anodization electrodes where R1 is.  (I presume R1 is modeling the anodization, not an explicit resistor.)  I used a 70uF motor-run capacitor for C1 and higher current and voltage diodes for D1 and D2.  (I think 1N4004 is rated to only 400V.  D1 can see up to 680V if R1 is open, as 240Vac RMS is 680Vpp.)  C2 is counter-productive.  It's there in normal voltage-doublers to smooth the output voltage.

The sparks don't occur initially.  First a layer of Al2O3 forms on the surface and the voltage rises.  As the peak voltage reaches ~450V, discharges start showing up scattered around the surface.  If I understand correctly, it's those discharges that very-locally melt the Al2O3, which resolidifies into a harder structure.

I had luck with some aluminum alloys and not others.  My best outcome was with an old aluminum ice cream scoop.  It used to tarnish and stain ice cream being served, with (I think) sodium-aluminate.  It has been much nicer to use and clean since anodizing.  It's been quite a while.  I think my best success was with citric-acid as an electrolyte.  I had less luck with scraps of aluminum sheet-metal, although some were somewhat OK.  I always started with the aluminum immersed, not trying to concentrate current by just touching the electrolyte.

For simulation, R1 is a very-low resistance load.  Might be realistic for starting conditions with a highly-conductive electrolyte.  100-1k ohms might be more realistic for most of the anodization process.

Glad you are already keen on safety!  Have fun, and please post your results!

Edit (addition):
You've got me thinking about spark anodization again, so did a bit of internet searching.  Much more published information these days.  Here's a good paper, especially the introduction:
https://www.mdpi.com/2075-4701/8/2/105/htm
As I see here and in other references, typical electrolyte is based on sodium silicate and potassium hydroxide.  I expect you will want to avoid chlorides in order to avoid forming aluminum chloride or chlorate.
It also mentions the need to build up an oxide layer before sparking starts.

Separately, I think there is little concern about UV.  The sparks are spread-out and relatively dim, difficult to see at all in daylight.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 05:34:42 AM by davekni »
David Knierim

Offline realsceincetist

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Re: noob trying to build a voltage doubler
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2021, 08:46:51 PM »
Update (spoiler alert nothing very interesting happened)

I took me way too long to build this circuit, and possibly even longer for me to gather the courage to actually plug it in and use it.  I am using diluted oven cleaner as an electrolyte (lemon flavour)http://www.rbnainfo.com/product.php?productLineId=1710.  Aluminum foil as one electrode, and a graphite rod as the other.  I smoothed the output with a microwave capacitor to measure it with my multimeter and it does indeed put out 680 V.  Right now there is no plasma no matter which way round I put the electrodes, and after I increased the electrolyte concentration.

Things I might try:
  • using different aluminum
  • Not smoothing the output of the circuit
  • finally getting around to calibrating my PH meter and measuring the electrolyte PH
  • Controlling the frequency by putting the smoothed 680V through a big transistor that I bought but don't really know how to use


Offline davekni

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Re: noob trying to build a voltage doubler
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2021, 09:19:44 PM »
I also had no luck with aluminum foil.  Not sure why - foil is fairly pure aluminum.

Oven cleaner may have enough sodium hydroxide to dissolve any oxide that forms.  Aluminum reacts with sodium hydroxide even without electricity, forming hydrogen gas and sodium aluminate.  Somewhat basic (high pH) electrolytes must work, as I read that sodium silicate is used commercially for micro-arc anodization.  I had better luck with weakly-acidic solutions.

BTW, how long did you wait for an oxide film to form?  That will depend on current and area of aluminum (and electrolyte etc.).  I vaguely recall it taking 15-30 minutes for my setup before voltage rose to 450V and sparking started.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2021, 09:31:00 PM by davekni »
David Knierim

Offline johnf

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Re: noob trying to build a voltage doubler
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2021, 07:22:22 PM »
I would try and find some sodium metasilicate (water Glass) to use as the electrolyte
this is used to waterproof concrete and preserve eggs

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Re: noob trying to build a voltage doubler
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2021, 07:22:22 PM »

 


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